New Anchor/Cordelette System? Also, Nuts what are the most common sizes to 'double up' on?

Hello!

Thanks in advance as I have been posting quite a bit in this forum as I am dusting off my trad gear, and the responses are outstanding! A few more questions please?!

I climb trad mostly on the front range of Eldorado and RMNP, and all around the Front range.

1. I am looking at getting a second anchor system/ cordelette. I came across this Metolius anchor; anyone use it or have any opinions on it please.
metoliusclimbing.com/equali…

2. Also, regarding the cordelette; is there a more standard length you can advise on as I see quite a few lengths out there. The one I have is about 5.4M / around 17ft.
Is longer than that better?

3. Do you always climb with two(2) cordelettess? Or climb with one and use slings for the 2nd anchor when doing multi-pitch? I always climbed with only one cordelette, but thinking it may be easier to have two?

4. I need to replenish my nuts/stoppers, and I know I used to have 'doubles' in a few sizes, but forgot what are the best size stoppers to double up on please for the areas along the Colorado front range mentioned above?

Thanks so much for all your help my friends! Thanks for taking time out of your day to give me some advice, as I am out of the loop on the latest/greatest?
I know I sound like a noob, but I'm really not (terribly); just been a while!

Thanks again sooo much!

When in doubt I take a cordelette and a 240 cm dynex sling, to serve as a 2nd long anchor. When doubling up on stoppers I carry a set of BDs and a set of DMMs. Depending on the crack one or the other will work best. I really like the DMM offsets as well.

Double up on the DMM offsets. I could easily use all five on any pitch, but try to save them because of how versital they are.

If you are not going to use the rope and insist on a cordellete, then yes generally you will have one and your partner should have his own for multipitch.

In my opinion the nuts you want to double up on are the nuts in the middle sizes, like around the purple black diamond nut size. These are the sizes where even small cams are getting too big for the placements, but the nuts are still big enough to be useful and full strength.

If you are carrying doubles of .75 C4 you don't also need doubles of big nuts of that size as well.

Chris, that Trango AE sure looks like the next best thing since sliced bread but at +/- 35 bucks seems a bit spendy for a "limited" item.
I found myself vascillating between the cordelette and the AE till i read the posts in the following links:

Anchor setup efficiency

ACR anchor method

After viewing Paul Raphaelson's PDF file, paulraphaelson.com/download…, I decided this would be my anchor of choice.

You can purchase 30' of 7mm and 2 Omega Pacific Aluminum rap rings for about the same price as 1 of those pre-sewn get-ups and have 2 ACR's for multi-pitch belays.
This set up is also very inexpensive if you must leave it behind for a rappel anchor.
Works great as a ice climbing anchor as well.

Best of luck with your anchor choice and stay safe out there!

There has been some research that I cant dig up off hand about nylon verses other cord/webbing types with the conclusion being that nylon is a safer material due to its ability to withstand multiple shock loads with a more predictable response to future stresses. Also, nylon is more versatile since you can use it in many friction knots and hitches in self rescue situations. Also, in such cases, it is much easier to cut with your knife.

For multi pitch routes where self rescue skills are essential, it makes sense to choose nylon.

Because of all of this, Im a big fan of nylon cord for cordalettes.

Not exactly an answer to your questions but a perspective on material that does I think help when deciding.

I grew up with BD nuts. I have doubles of most and triples of 5-8

David Appelhans wrote:If you are not going to use the rope and insist on a cordellete, then yes generally you will have one and your partner should have his own for multipitch. In my opinion the nuts you want to double up on are the nuts in the middle sizes, like around the purple black diamond nut size. These are the sizes where even small cams are getting too big for the placements, but the nuts are still big enough to be useful and full strength. If you are carrying doubles of .75 C4 you don't also need doubles of big nuts of that size as well.

Thanks much everyone!

Does anyone know the best way to look at a nut and measure it or similar to see which size it is please, as all my nuts are worn down and no longer show the Number/size?

Thoughts please?

Thanks again!

Jesse Morehouse wrote:There has been some research that I cant dig up off hand about nylon verses other cord/webbing types with the conclusion being that nylon is a safer material due to its ability to withstand multiple shock loads with a more predictable response to future stresses. Also, nylon is more versatile since you can use it in many friction knots and hitches in self rescue situations. Also, in such cases, it is much easier to cut with your knife. For multi pitch routes where self rescue skills are essential, it makes sense to choose nylon. Because of all of this, Im a big fan of nylon cord for cordalettes. Not exactly an answer to your questions but a perspective on material that does I think help when deciding.

Thanks Jesse!

I don't recall ever seeing a nylon cordelette ever advertised? Have you seen this sold in stores anywhere, as in cut at a certain length? If not, what size/ length do you typically use?

I alternate anchors with one cordelette and one double length sling. If using the sling. I self equalize two pieces with a "magic x" and a shoulder length sling. Then equalize the sliding x with another bomber piece using Load-limiting knots

willeslinger wrote:I alternate anchors with one cordelette and one double length sling. If using the sling. I self equalize two pieces with a "magic x" and a shoulder length sling. Then equalize the sliding x with another bomber piece using Load-limiting knots

I have done the sliding X quite a bit, and then I throw a third piece into the 'biner that is the master point of the X to not allow it to move, and therefore creating a 3 piece system. Good?

willeslinger, is that about what you are speaking (along the lines so to say).

The URL you had attached does not take my anywhere?

Thanks again!

One other quick question please;

I have doubles of nuts in most sizes up to #10.
Does anyone recommend a double in size 10 or 11, and if so, which one? I have doubles in size 9, so was thinking on getting another 11 as I remember this being a popular size for routes along the front range? Although, I do have a crap load of cams,

Thoughts again please? Thanks dudes!

Chris Cavallaro wrote: I have done the sliding X quite a bit, and then I throw a third piece into the 'biner that is the master point of the X to not allow it to move, and therefore creating a 3 piece system. Good?

No, not good. Doing this eliminates any of the advantages of the sliding X in the first place (the ability to theoretically equalize two pieces to a range of directions of pull).

What you're doing there is a 3-piece system, but not a good one. Check this out, if you're interested in some other ways of building a belay: mountainproject.com/v/rope-…

In response to your other questions, I really like the DMM Wallnuts, and carry doubles in the mid-sizes on long multi-pitch climbs. I've never climbed in the Front Range so can't speak to their use in that location, though.

Chris Cavallaro wrote: I don't recall ever seeing a nylon cordelette ever advertised? Have you seen this sold in stores anywhere, as in cut at a certain length? If not, what size/ length do you typically use?

You just buy 6 or 7 mm cord at a climbing shop and get about 18-22 feet of it. I like the longer end, others like shorter. YMMV. Its cheap so try out both!

I like 2 cordeletts for this reason.
When running multi pitch before we leave the ground we decide on who is going to led and who is going to follow for the entire route, no swing leads.
So our climb goes as such.
I lead and set anchor.
Second cruses as fast as possible, hand off the cordelette they have and gear collected. they should be puffing and sweating so not ready to lead the next pitch and I am rested.
I leave the belay and led next pitch, set one bomber piece and clip it, call off belay and build the rest of the anchor with cordolette then haul the rope, while the second tares down the lower anchor. "on belay" and the second races up the pitch, hands off cordolette and gear on belay and I am off on the next pitch . . . repeat until rout is done.

Jason Kim wrote: No, not good. Doing this eliminates any of the advantages of the sliding X in the first place (the ability to theoretically equalize two pieces to a range of directions of pull). What you're doing there is a 3-piece system, but not a good one. Check this out, if you're interested in some other ways of building a belay: mountainproject.com/v/rope-… In response to your other questions, I really like the DMM Wallnuts, and carry doubles in the mid-sizes on long multi-pitch climbs. I've never climbed in the Front Range so can't speak to their use in that location, though.

Thanks man! Yeah, I did a double take when I mentioned keeping the sliding X in place. I don't think I have ever done that, so thanks for catching me on this!

Thanks for all the great advice everyone!

You all are very cool and helpful!