[Hide Comment] I really enjoyed this route. I've heard people say that it's contrived because the arete is off, but the holds are all there on the face, and I thought it flowed very nicely. some really thoughtful movement in places, maybe because I'm quite short and had to get creative with the beta. still, I had a lot of fun on this climb and was happy to get the redpoint. as for the grade, I think it felt like 12a - but if someone called it 11d, I don't think I'd complain. Aug 1, 2014

[Hide Comment] Gave up on TR after falling several times about 5 moves up. And this is after I flashed (not onsighted, I had come there before) Step into the Light and ascended Duppy Conqueror on TR. This route is hard! Jan 11, 2018

[Hide Comment] Flashed this on lead using some holds next to/on the arete. I definitely think it would be harder not using the arete, 5.11d/5.12, but it's bullshit to say it's off given you can clip all the bolts from the arete. Mid 5.11 this way. Jul 28, 2018

[Hide Comment] Caliza: The name of the climb tells it all. Some climbs have rules problems. You do it the way you want however. Brad is in the Hospital after a serious motorcycle accident so I am defending him as he'll be out of commission for some time.. Also read Dustin's comment above and the description of the climb again. Also, don't rate the climb 11c if you didn't actually do the climb. Jul 28, 2018

[Hide Comment] John, from what I see, people are calling this 11d/12a if you don't touch some of the stuff to the right. It's ridiculous to say that a good hold two feet from a shitty hold is off. As far as the actually arete itself, I touched it once. If a route has rules as to what's on, what's off, that's an eliminate. E.g. "If you use this hold, it's 11b, if you don't use this, it's 11c, and if you don't use any of these holds its 12a or b, take away that foot, 12c" In other words contrived. Jul 29, 2018

[Hide Comment] Caliza: No question the route is contrived. If you don't like contrived routes I suggest you not climb it. Others, myself included, don't mind contrived routes. All routes in the gym are "contrived", i.e. you only use the red holds, but people love gym climbing. (Using the word "Bullshit" in your first post kinda set me off - a bit strong). Jul 29, 2018

[Hide Comment] John, I did enjoy the route, it was fun, but can't stand when people say, "you're not supposed to use that hold." If the hold is within reach, who's to say it's off. Jul 29, 2018

[Hide Comment] We're talking about a few holds on one route right? I like this route. Cool texture, holds and moves. I haven't got the redpoint yet but have enjoyed trying it without using the arête. My friend didn't like it and won't go back-I did, and will! Pretty simple. Sep 7, 2018

[Hide Comment] I flashed the route using a large slopey sidepull on the right to clip bolt 4. 11+ doing it this way. Afterwards I worked out a sequence that avoids the large slopey sidepull and the moves are super sick. To contrive this sequence is worth every penny of effort. Do it! Aug 10, 2019

[Hide Comment] Hey Brad, loved the route! Thanks for the recommendation, took one fall at the crux, I think i did what you said exactly not to do and didn't keep my feet low. Defiantly will give it another go. Hope to hear about when you send this thing again! Nov 17, 2019

[Hide Comment] Chris, thx for the update. It was great climbing with you guys. See you out there. Nov 20, 2019

[Hide Comment] These comments are hilarious. I’m flattered that people think this is 12a, but i sent on my third attempt, and i think a true 12a would’ve taken me quite a few more tries. The 11c that’s the guidebook has seems accurate.

I stayed off the arete, and used the sloper sidepull at the fourth bolt to clip, used a bad left hand to gain a nice sidepull crimp with my right and worked my feet up til i got the big hold with my left hand.

The awkward balancy moves at the fourth bolt were the crux for me. I really enjoyed the face moves prior to that, and after the fifth bolt to finish. Apr 30, 2020

[Hide Comment] I almost never get into grading arguments but i would like to share a few generic thoughts. Grading debates rage on at all crags, It's part of our culture. It's normal, healthy and eventually leads to a proper grade for a climb. One or two people declaring a climb is harder or easier than the grade given by the FA' s or the grade based on community consensus, won't change things.

Every time we grade a climb it reflects our own strengths and weaknesses.

FA's grade a climb on its condition at the moment of the first accent. Over time climbs will change. They get cleaner, holds break, new beta is found. The important bit is the community consensus. So I say...debate on!!! Jan 9, 2021

[Hide Comment] What is the consensus on the slopey sidepull around the 4th bolt? I've been avoiding it as I feel like it drops the grade into the 11s. I agree that the route is a bit contrived, but I think that the climbing, especially around the 3rd bolt, is excellent and justifies the route, regardless of it being a rules problem. Aug 28, 2024

[Hide Comment] Due to the controversy surrounding this route I have considered moving the the lower three bolts 3 feet to the left. One problem is the lower part then becomes 12b or B+ and the disconnect between the upper and lower areas of the climb really stand out. The other would be that I'm 75 and my days of climbing in the 12's is over.

In the first accent I used all horizontals until the short vertical crack. There I did a double gaston. I didn't use the mail slots or the jug out left. The two side pulls above the roof to the right were "on" because at that point there is really no arete, they are just features. Moving over the small roof I used the small right crimp and another, smaller, left hand crimp on the face. This felt 12a at the time. Later on others started using the mail slots and the jug out left which was more esthetic (and fun) but lowered the grade to 11c.

So the 11c beta is...stay on the face and use horizontals, the pinch, and the mail slots, until the roof where you use the side pulls to move up to the crimps. Use the crimps to stay on the face above the small roof to make the last move to the monster jugs.

OR

Climb it any way you want and just have fun. Oct 22, 2024