[Hide Comment] Jay- I was looking at this line last summer. Had I been around long enough... Nice to see some new stuff going in. JJ Jun 22, 2007

[Hide Comment] Thanks guys. Congrats, Jason, on the quick 2nd ascent. Jun 25, 2007

[Hide Comment] If you stick clip the second bolt on the route you won't get clipped by the roof. Fun route, I just keep seeing people get banged up when they miss the first move. Sep 10, 2007

[Hide Comment] I really like this route but I feel it does not live up to its 5.12 rating when comparing it to pagan rituals and other climbs at the hollow. Once you have a feeling for the first move there are really no struggles. Oct 9, 2007

[Hide Comment] waxisgood,

Just because you figured out the crux move and you are comfortable pulling it, doesn't mean you have to downgrade the climb. That could be said for any climb you figure out. Once you have a feeling for it, there are no struggles. May 19, 2008

[Hide Comment] I was at the Hillbilly this summer and I saw that there was a three foot stack of cheater stones at the base of this route. I am not a purist or anything (ask anyone), but by stacking stones up to start the route, the crux becomes very different. I always thought that the crux was pulling up off the patina edge and getting both feet on the wall. With the stones, the pull-up isn't needed. I don't care if you use cheater stones, but please be aware that the given grade refers to a stone-less ascent. Aug 29, 2008

[Hide Comment] The stones were back yesterday. So I knocked them back down. They even had some glue on them to try to keep them together. What a joke. I keep having my buddies tell me how easy a 12 this is. Except they all used the cheater stones, which allow you to put one foot up before you leave the ground, changing the crux completely. You are supposed to hang off the start holds and bring yourself off the ground, not step on the stones to bring yourself off the ground. There are a handful of people that think they got this route done, but they need to go back and do it the right way. May 15, 2009

[Hide Comment] I'd say this feels mid 5.11 if you take away the bottom pull-up. Still a fun route, but not 5.12.

If everyone wants the stones up, that's fine with me. I'll just change the grade. No biggie. May 15, 2009

[Hide Comment] Alright, so cheaters stones or not, my buddy still hiked this thing. But he's done it a few times. I got on it and I couldn't stick the first move. I kept sliding out of the pocket above. But I did pull the rest of the climb. Fun climb too. Lots of cool features. Like small pockets in the face above the first move. Sweet. May 26, 2009

[Hide Comment] I hate when the crux is the first moves. It feels like I'm the fat kid who is forced to start the race in the back of the pack.
I think I would have had a better day if I had just stacked up a few stones and sent a 11b instead of trying to caress my ego with a 5.12. To each his own. Aug 12, 2009

[Hide Comment] Solid 12a, 2-3 move (depending on sequence) boulder problem equals grabbing the crimps and pulling. Sep 15, 2010

[Hide Comment] Oooh, controversy! Good route, although it could use a spring cleaning. 12a if you grab the patina at full extension. Indeed, skipping that would undermine the difficulty considerably. Apr 1, 2012

[Hide Comment] Without cheater stones this is a solid V5+ pull into mid-5.10 climbing, followed by a V3 move to a 5.9ish top. 5.12a at a minimum. Sep 27, 2015

[Hide Comment] I know it's a bit silly to grade what is effectively one move, but that intro boulder felt HARD for 12a. Oct 22, 2023