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Titties and Beer (aka "World's Hardest 5.8")
5.10a,
Trad, 500 ft (152 m), 5 pitches,
Avg: 3.6 from 122
votes
FA: Bob Rotert & Ted Anderson @1977
N Carolina
> 1. Southern Mou…
> Looking Glass Rock
> Sun Wall
Access Issue: Post Hurricane Helene Accessibility of Crags
Details
The CCC has created the list linked below of accessible and inaccessible climbing areas with some caveats. If you decide to head out for a day of climbing, please do not attempt to go to those marked ‘inaccessible’. Please note that all areas in WNC will have extensive tree damage and if you head out, use extra caution for all the trees above, especially on a windy day. Rock fall potential is also highest after a big weather event. Please use extra caution while climbing and prepare to self rescue if injured. Injury response time will be greatly limited for any injury currently, especially for a remote injury. Cell service is limited in all areas. Parking at accessible crags in the WNC/ Upstate SC region will likely be challenging. If the parking lot is full, go to a different area and do not park illegally or in a road. Make a plan B before leaving your house. Expect road detours on the way to the crag. NCdrive.gov updates road closures. Once you get to the crag, expect many trees blocking access trails and of course, come volunteer with the CCC to help us bring our climbing areas back!
I am in the process of adding some routes that I have seen reported with some FA inaccuracies in the newest Selected Climbs of North Carolina guide book. "Titties and Beer" is an example of this. The Shull/Lambert guide reports Randy Mann was on the FA of this route when it was actually Ted Anderson who was on the FA. It is important to recognize Ted as the name for this route was inspired by Ted and comes from a Zappa song. Ted Anderson is a huge Zappa fan and we listened to a lot of Zappa when enroute to our "many" climbing adventures together. We were also, of course, big fans of the objects of this song...
After we did the first ascent & named it Titties & Beer this route got dubbed "the world's hardest 5.8". The story behind that is after we did the first ascent we were telling Jeep Gaskin, Grover Cable & some other friends about the new route. They asked us how hard we thought the route was. We thought about it and it seemed pretty easy compared to some of the scarefests we had done & were doing on the Glass and elsewhere and we also thought 5.10 was about the hardest we could climb back then. So off the cuff I said "Oh, it's probably about 5.8." Future ascents later confirmed that I might have had understated the rating a bit. Hence it became dubbed "The worlds hardest 5.8" Goes to show its always good to have a concensus on ratings.... The 5.8 climber might need a beer or two after climbing the sensational, voluptuous, undulations on this route.
Regardless of the original stated rating, for its grade it is a very cool route with a lot of character for a Looking Glass climb. We originally did the route by starting from the left on the upper slab and traversing to underneath the prominent crack system where we placed a bolt and belayed. We also later added a 10+ or 11- R/X direct start that we toproped at first and I led at one point. This variation climbed direct up a step slab off the ground with little or no pro to below the belay below the crack. The route has some hard moves to gain the crack and that is what I thought was the crux on the FA. Continue on up the crack and belay near the top. From there move out left a bit to find a spot where you can move thru the bulges and start trending right and then up. It has been a long time since I have done the route but follow the natural line to the top. You might consult the guide book if you want a more accurate description of where the route goes.
[Hide Photo] Whipping through space and time off the P3 crux. What an adventure! Took us 17 hours car to car, almost slept in the Pisgah on our ropes, and most certainly drank water from random streams. The des…
[Hide Photo] Belayer at Pitch 1 and climber building the belay at pitch 2.
[Hide Photo] Shannon at the pitch 3 boulder problem
[Hide Photo] Tits and Beer for Dave's bachelor party...he wasn't up for it!
[Hide Photo] Might help others with finding the last belay station/rap station, spoke with someone last night who had trouble. I believe we made it down with a 199ft rap.
[Hide Photo] Be ready for lady bugs in cracks out here in the fall 11/25/17
[Hide Photo] Finishing up the crux pitch with Karsten Delap of Pisgah Climbing School! Photo: Courtenay Roche.
[Hide Comment] The bulge on P3 is the hardest lead move I've ever seen anyone do. Hats off to Michael for leading, and to Bob for the bold FA!
Jan 28, 2007
[Hide Comment] Bob - Great story re the first ascent. I added the second bolt at the beginning of pitch 2 sometime in the early 90s. Your original belay bolt was showing signs of age (e.g. rust). I had intended to return to remove the older bolt thus leaving the route with no more fixed gear than the original ascent, but I never made it back.
Jul 6, 2007
[Hide Comment] This is without a doubt one of the best routes on the Sun Wall. To avoid the somewhat tricky "Southender" rappel, head up and left to do the Mainline Express rappel. On another note, does anyone know the history behind the two bolts leading through a bulge to the right of the start? I climbed this with a friend and it goes. Just wondering if anyone had done it before.
Feb 8, 2008
[Hide Comment] Climbed T&B for like the 20th time yesterday. It's still good. The mainline rappel is definitely the way to get off especially if you hike in from the Nose area. Leave you approach shoes and pack at the base of Mainline/Aerospace. Here's how to find the Mainline rappel stations. Once you're in the 4th pitch water groove, follow it for about 300 ft (either belay or 4th class). Keep your eye out for first massive tree island on the left. Traverse below the tree island to gain the left end. There is a large maple tree with rap slings (static rope) and rings. As of 07/09 the static rope was still in good shape. Rap from there down 170' to a double bolt belay. Another full 200ft rappel gets you back down to the Sunwall slab. Enjoy!
Jul 4, 2009
[Hide Comment] I don't think that's a Maple tree you rap off. The tree is fairly obvious, but calling it a Maple (as the guidebook does) caused us to hesitate a little bit. Pretty fun route. At the start of pitch 2, do you guys climb off the left side of the belay or right side? I climbed off the left side and it was easy, but there was no gear. It looked like there was gear on the right, but it looked less direct.
I thought the Michelin Man move was the crux, but I'm short.
Aug 18, 2009
[Hide Comment] Super fun! As of Nov 2010, the Mainline Rap seems like the best way down - 180ft from the tree island to the shiny new rap bolts, about 200ft down to the walk-off.
Nov 8, 2010
[Hide Comment] I have a question. Is this truly a grade IV, at least the way the AMGA would recognize it? Obviously more goes into the commitment than just the length/number of pitches, but 5-100' pitches seems really short for the grade.
The reason I ask isn't to troll; I'm planning a trip to this area in about six months with the intention of getting several east coast Grade IV or longer routes in (for AMGA prereqs); this route looks awesome, but I want to know if it is actually a grade four on par with Gom Jabber or The Glass Menagerie (in commitment, not difficulty). Thanks guys.
Mar 26, 2011
[Hide Comment] there is a way to weave through the bulges on pitch3 without actually going over the 'micheline man bulge'. go up and right from the belay and traverse the hang. pro is good. climbing is 5.8. you'll end up in exactly the same place. also. i prefer to access t&b from the southside, leave a rope at southender and on pitch4 head sharply for the bolts on irish gig. the advantage is that you don't have to drag a second rope. it's helpful if you're familiar with the tops of the routes between t&b and southender but if you're not the key land mark is the obvious head stone that sits in the ruby tuesday grove. the rap ledge is just below it. the bolts are on the southender side of the ledge, head height. first rapper goes down on a single and ties on the rope you left. same idea as any of the routes that end above sentry ledge on the southside. enjoy.
May 27, 2011
[Hide Comment] I like using the rap that Jeep mentions and think going in to do T&B via the southside trail is quicker/chiller. Never thought of leaving a rope at the base of the rappel. Good beta.
Nov 30, 2011
[Hide Comment] On the second pitch instead of exiting the crack and climbing the face out left. Stay in the crack for some great off-width climbing. I don't really no why you would exit the crack. Its fun climbing all the way to the end. ( this is certainly the crux pitch )
Feb 27, 2012
[Hide Comment] Great route! This whole climb eats gear. The bulge move on pitch 3 was exciting! I agree that this climb is very committing for the 5.8-5.9 climber.
Mar 12, 2012
[Hide Comment] Great route with awesome exposure on the 3rd pitch! I thought the 2nd pitch was one of the best hand cracks I've seen in NC. The mainline rappell certainly seems easier than Southender. However, the guide books says to make the first rappell "straight down 190'" which definitely got me off course. It seems the second rappell rings are probably atleast 40' to the left of "straight down". Ended up having to leave some nuts and a .4" cam for the second rap.
Jul 2, 2013
[Hide Comment] Climbed T&B for about the 5th or 6th time yesterday - - I actually had a hard time with the route as I haven't climbed anything remotely hard in about 4 weeks due to a knee injury - - I managed to get it done though (and was glad my partner, Kenneth had fun). It was a great airy adventure for him and probably the hardest multi-pitch climb he had done. Here are a couple of tips for those getting psyched to do this great route:
P-1) getting up to the double bolt anchor from the ledge - this is cake - plug in a couple of pieces but this is super basic 5.4/5.5 type stuff (FWIW, I suggest racking up and leaving your packs, etc. under the climb Ruby Tuesday or Irish Jig. Walk ready to climb with your shoes, water bottle, rack and 2 ropes from there along the base, shimmy up the tree and gain the ledge under Out to Lunch, etc.)
P-2) you get a black diamond .4 (3 lobes) about 10' above the bolts - you can clip it short and then go back and extend once you have gear up in the crack - just fire through the early moves and don't get too pumped - - this is probably the crux of the climb and I'd say it does feel 5.10a - - the crack is super fun and backs off in hardness as you go up - about 50' up trend left onto the face and then up another 40' or so of easier slabby face climbing to get to the belay spot - save some medium wired stoppers and a couple of cams for the belay - a #2 Camalot fits nicely
P-3) you can go right or left but most go (climber's) left. you can protect right below "the move" - this move probably is 5.9 but it does feel hard - through up a high foot and get the second hand above - it's all there. Make sure to put a .5 camalot right above the move for your second so if they fall they don't cheese grater the rope across the rock - this is important. The move is a side-pull and a high step - just do it -it's fun - trend up and right to a great belay spot - takes medium size cams, or a slotted stopper - this is a short pitch.
p-4) keep going out to your right to gain the obvious water groove about 40' right of the belay - it's a one step move into the groove (5.7?) and then things get easy. Go up the groove for about 40' and then go right to another good belay spot - - all the hard climbing is now over.
p-5) this isn't really a "pitch" but it avoids Southender Gully which is a PITA. - traverse right about a full rope length - don't go up too much - aim for what looks like a totally loose bolder sitting on a ledge (it might be - don't mess with it) go under it to a giant ledge and find two shiny stainless rap anchors (these are roughly on top of Irish Jig and Ruby Tuesday) - - one rappel (2 ropes) gets you on the ground with plenty to spare (if you followed my P-1 advice, you are right at your pack stash and can hit the trail from here). If you can't find the aformentioned bolts you can go up and right and eventually hit trees - this is Southender Gully - - a bungle in the jungle for sure but you'll make it down. Check out Jeep's technique for using only one-rope on the route too (see above) - this is a very good trick but it absolutely assumes that you will finish the route.
Sep 8, 2013
[Hide Comment] Climbed it last Wednesday. Beautiful sunny day. Approached from the south side. Started from the bottom of the apron off to the left by a tree. Super fun awesomeness. Couldn't find any damn rap anchors though. We might have gone too high on the last pitch. Found 2 tricams and a nut with a sling over by Southender Gully that got us to the ground (barely) with a single 2-rope rap on two 70m.
Nov 24, 2013
[Hide Comment] Climbed it today- great climb, and probably one of the most difficult and long climbs I've ever done. The bulge move wasn't too bad, you just had to be able to do a pull up on bad holds- the second pitch was a fair bit harder, but thankfully well protected. We decided to do the mainline rappel, which was a bad idea. The traverse to get over to the trees was quite sketchy- very, very runout with moss and loose rocks on a lot of it, and I didn't realize the tree was all the way on the left, so I almost decided to traverse all the way back. Got our rope stuck on a flake on the second rappel, which was great, and so I'll have to back tomorrow to get it.
Dec 20, 2013
[Hide Comment] As the comments suggests, the difficulty of this route is subjective. This was my second time at Looking Glass and I felt the route was fun and not strenuous relative to other multipitch climbs. If you are comfortable leading trad at the 5.9 level and have a general feeling for the area then you will be fine.
The bulge is fun and protected by bomber gear at your waist. I can see how this could be be intimidating if you are pushing the grade at Looking Glass but it isn't too bad IMHO.
Dec 29, 2013
[Hide Comment] This is an amazing route that is probably the most protectable route at Looking Glass. The crux is super protectable and pretty spicy for 5.8...but really fun. The decent can be a little tricky though.
Sep 12, 2014
[Hide Comment] If you're looking to get down via the Mainline rappel, be advised that the maple tree (or whatever it was) is no more. Apparently it was deader than it looked, and during a storm the whole thing broke apart. We arrived at the rap station in the dark to find chunks of tree everywhere, with the trunk broken off just above where the anchor was tied.
We relocated the tat to a cedar tree about 20 feet downslope of the old tree. The cedar is between calf and thigh thickness, and seemed healthy and solid. It held us. The anchor was thrown together in haste, and in the dark. So it could probably stand to be inspected and/or improved.
Nov 10, 2014
[Hide Comment] Bring lots of long runners on this one. We encountered bad rope drag on each pitch. The crack on pitch two is more like a flared hand crack than a true off-width. After climbing the crack stay more or less above and slightly left to build your anchor.
Mar 9, 2016
[Hide Comment] Great climb overall -- the mental and physical crux for me were the start of P2. I placed a very marginal .4 C4 before gaining the crack but I'm not sure it would have held a fall. Falling while getting into the crack would be an ankle breaker on the slab below and the moves felt 9+. The crack is bomber and protects well - super cruisy with even modest hand jamming technique, 8+ or so.
"The move" felt easier than expected (and I'm not tall - 5'10") - 8+ or maybe 9 - and was a very well protected one move wonder. .3 or .5 C4 puts the crux move on TR.
As far as rappeling, does anyone have any beta for the mainline express rappel other than what's written here? We tried to find it and found the tree with tat that Chuck Parks mentioned -- rapped down and slightly left to a nice set of rings, but then a double rope 60m rappel left me dangling on the slab ~50 feet off the apron on fairly difficult slab moves. It was dark when we rapped so I'm not sure if we missed a set of rings but ended up having to rap off a single bolt and hanger that we found and leave a bail biner.
Dec 4, 2017
[Hide Comment] Four star climbing, but the rappel is a nightmare. We ended up getting lost and swinging around on ropes until we found some tat in decent condition near the southender gully. Be warned that the picture above giving beta for finding the rap bolts on southender is not actually the location of the bolts.
Feb 5, 2018
[Hide Comment] Climbed T&B on 9/3/18...good rock, great line, amazing exposure, and all topped off with a healthy dose of adventure.
Some notes....we climbed P4 straight up the water groove for 200'. Didn't commit to either the Southender nor Mainline rappel. We instead fixed a pair of nuts with cordalette and rappelled a full length to the anchors on Irish Jig.
Has anyone asked or attempted adding a well established bolted rappel for this route? Seems odd that this "classic" has one of the silliest and contrived descents. Not to mention that the top of the first pitch has bolted anchors...why not equip the rest of the line? I'd suggest adding anchors on top of pitch 3 and pitch 4. Still a natural anchor on top of pitch 2. That way you could rap the entire line with a pair of ropes.
Sep 10, 2018
[Hide Comment] The hardware at the top.of P1 is odd. It's not necessary there and it's the only non trad element of the entire climb. I thought the climb was adventurous and would be crazy cool with zero bolts.
Dec 10, 2018
[Hide Comment] Is Jeep’s rap suggestion in the comments above to skip p4 water groove and head sharp right or finish pitch 4 then head sharp right?
To answer my own question: Pitch 4 is a short pitch around the corner and 30-40’ up the water groove until you can step right on easy ground and find a good belay spot. P5 traverses almost straight climbers right aiming for the big detached headstone. I climbed a bit to high above the headstone and made an easy 10ft. down climb to head to the anchors. I attempted to link 4-5 with a 70....the rope drag was horrible and I was about 10ft short of the anchors, me and my partner did some easy simul-climbing to finish. Luckily we were able to call each other(with poor service) to communicate because at a rope length apart we could neither see nor hear each other
Just follow Drew Dekle’s instructions from above and you’ll be fine. The climbing is a blast! No move felt crazy. I rated the route a 5.8+ for historical purposes. As anyone linked p2-3? I think you would have plenty with a 70 if you could manage the drag. Would be an epic pitch of climbing.
Oct 29, 2020
[Hide Comment] Had a blast on this route. I am not use to Carolina climbing so here is my unbiased opinion.
P2 crux is mental and right of the deck of the anchors. It is protectable with a .4 C4 and .2 or .3 Totem. But you will have to back clean at least one of these once you get gear in the crack. The rope drag would be bad if you left them in. If you lead 5.10 on the regular I would just fire for the crack and enjoy the pitch. I found P2 to be very enjoyable!
P3 Crux is very well protected. Definitely pull the man bulge!
P4 the water groove is climbers right of the belay station around the corner. Here's where you should pay attention to my beta. Once you pull into the water groove you need to be continuously looking right for the chock stone that will help you find the irish jig rap anchors. I got lost in the climbing and passed them by 300 feet.
Because of this choice I got to enjoy two 200 foot pitches up some easy slab that was quite fun and scenic. However, it forced me to either summit and rap off the nose rappel or go down the southender gully rap.
I do not recommend the southender gully as this is what I ended up taking. 3 double rope raps got us down but it was a process for sure. One of the raps was off a slung rhodo that was not very enticing.
Moral of the story dont miss the chock stone! However if you do, you will be awarded with some adventure climbing for sure!
May 9, 2021
[Hide Comment] An apology for those offended, and or not a fan of Zappa or the route name Titties and Beer. This was put up decades ago, long before the days of trying to be non offensive with route names. In fact, as is very obvious even elsewhere, having somewhat offensive and politically incorrect route names was a goal at times for previous climbing history.. Some that are offended may never understand this. I was actually recently approached and asked if I wanted to change this name, that has existed on this the route for over 45 yrs now. Again apologies to those offended but I was not interested in doing that nor am I in favor of rewriting or sanitizing history for the latest sentiment. For more context It was named @ 1976, a different time, by two 19 year old males, out having a raucous and adventurous day.
And To The Trestle, Heh, heh, yes we do love Titties and Beer! .!.
Jan 9, 2022
[Hide Comment] If you have a problem with a route called "menstruation Station" then why do you think this can fly....The route I posted in Dolores was named by a woman....this name is probably made up by a man!!! Quite being so highly sensitive. Get your priorities strait. Grow up and stop being offended by everything.
Sep 19, 2022
[Hide Comment] Good on you for not changing the name, Bob. It's not hateful and you can't not offend everyone. That's on them. F'em. I and many others like both of those, and as my late cousin said, " you can't blame the compass for pointing north."
Anyway, I climbed it years ago and thought it was 9 or 9+. Great route.
Fellow Boulderia Wannabe resident, but hopefully not much longer as the same type of sorry people who wanted you to rename the route have infested this place.
[Hide Comment] The crux on the (2nd?) pitch was a bit harder than I thought. The route is deifinitely not a one move wonder. The bulge crux was mainly: not trusting the gear below the bulge and then trying to get the feet above the buldge with the hands being so low (scrunched). 5.9+ seems fair. Had to take Southender Gully especially since it's a maze up there. (be prepared for this route to take some time with pathfinding)... both on the approach and the descent. If you add some sling, etc to make a pull cord, you can rap with a 70, but as mentioned it sucks.
Apr 29, 2023
[Hide Comment] Rappel beta as of 9/24/23: After climbing a full rope length for P4, you will see a “Tree island” up and left. Climb another class 4/5 pitch to the LEFT side of this tree island. There is good looking cordellete and rap rings on a cedar/pine tree. Rappel on two ropes down and slightly left to rap rings below a bulge. Then a double rope rappel with two 70m ropes gets you to the slab apron and you can easily walk back to the start of the route and get anything you left. Great route, and generally well protected.
Sep 24, 2023
[Hide Comment] Note to anyone looking to lower off on one rope via the Irish Jig anchors: begin the traverse right on P4 as soon as the crack in the water groove ends (or gets smaller than finger sized). This will be sooner than you expect, after maybe 50 feet of vertical climbing on P4. As the guidebook says, traverse directly right and do not climb up. This should lead you over a slabby bulge put you level with the detached "headstone" boulder. From there you must traverse another 20 or so more feet to the right to the anchors. Rappel off these anchors at Irish Jig to the right to intercept the anchors on Southender. From there you will access the ground.
Mar 1, 2024
[Hide Comment] We approached this route using the approach for the nose since the road to the south side was closed. We saw other cars parked at the gate for the southside approach, but decided to drive around so we did have to do a longer approach.
Location of the route: 35.301937, -82.794548 You should be on the saddle/slab. Route is about 150 ft right of Le Pump
Gear used: double rack 0.3 to 3 C4s, red, green and yellow C3s and 2 large offset nuts. (I think a single #3 is actually find. I think I used it on pitch 2 once, which could've used a #2 next to it, and placed it once more on the 4th pitch) Bring at least 10-12 extended draws, with a few doulble shoulder length slings. I used all the slings I had on the last traverse pitch.
I used Drew Deckles pitch break down, but if you want more beta read on
Pitch 1: A short traversing pitch to double bolt anchors. I would say the moves were more 5.5/5.6 traversing all towards climbers right. Nothing more to explain here
Pitch 2: Sport crux right off the anchors. If you can climb 5.10 face at the gym, this would be a breeze. I started left of the anchors and went straight to the crack. Don't bother placing gear before the crack, just go straight to the bomber hand jams, but this means this would be a no fall zone either because it would be an ankle/leg breaking fall. PG13 if you don't place before the crack but way more pumpier. Continue up the obvious crack system with plenty of places to stem and shake off until you get into a depression for a no hands rest. After this a bulge and then another 30-40 ft of slab climbing. This part wasn't that obvious for me with a lot of traversing left and right to find the right holds and feet. Belay at the highest horizontal crack system which eats large gear. I had to pull up to see my placement so my anchor would be above me for better comfort at belaying. (I think I used a blue, red and a green C4)
Pitch 3: We went left here like all the photos posted. Extend all your pieces as your traverse so you're not fighting drag as you pull the crux. The crux is protected by a bomber 0.4 C4 and I think I backed it up with a yellow C3 a few inches to the right of it. It's an obvious high right side pull and matching left land and high feet. Careful with the feet because its were you're C4 would be. Drew describes a 0.5 placement to protect the follower. I didn't find the placement initially because after the crux i kept climbing until I got a good resting stance. The 0.5 placement will be below you once you find that good stance. The climbing isn't done yet so hopefully you didn't pump yourself out. Still some 5.8-5.9 slab moves until the next anchor. I posted a photo of my anchor system here. I used the crack system below a chopped bolt on the wall. It's obvious once you see it.
Pitch 4: Like Drew said, traverse right for about 40 ft until you find the crack in the water groove. I would use extend all the slinsg during the traverse and double shoulder length slings on the first two placements in the crack, since its basically a 90 degree change. 1st part of the crack eats off set nuts for breakfast. I placed 2 here. Climb for another 40-50 ft until placement in the water groove becomes impossible. I think last piece for me was #3. From here I stepped right onto the slab and climbed for another 15 ft up and right. (I passed a eye brow with a block of loose rock right under it about the size of a shoe. I should've have tossed it, but since it was my first time here, I didn't know want to just toss it without knowing what routes were below). Anchor is about 15-20 ft right of the water groove. You should be able to see the detached/headstone block way climbers right by now, maybe 80ft or so? Anchor can be in any of the eyes brows there.
Pitch 5. My anchor here was slightly above the level of the detached blocked and as I traversed towards it I had to climb above it because it seemed very difficult to stay at the same level of the block. I had to downclimb about 20 ft to the same ledge the block was on when I got close to it. Once you reach the block, traverse another 40 ft till you see bolted anchors head high. I used all my extended slings here and still had a lot of rope drag still. I suggest using double shoulder length slings before making your way down the next water groove to help with the angle and rope drag.
Descent: We left our packs on the slab/saddle near the start of the route because we approached from the nose parking lot. Standard double rope rappel. If I was to do this route again, I would try to do the other rappel that finishes straight up on pitch 5 then traverse left. The "hike" from the bottom of the rappel back to start of this pitch was the worst. It was a lot of bush wacking through the forest and through those thorn infested vines. We initially had a trail we started off with but because of all the fallen leaves, it was impossible to keep track of it.
It would be really nice if a dedicated bolted rappel was given for a popular route like this that ends on the slab/saddle. I don't know why anyone would repeat this route just because of that reason alone. Route was pretty fun though.
Dec 11, 2024
Avg: 3.6 from 122
votes
Access Issue: Post Hurricane Helene Accessibility of Crags
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Decatur, GA
Paris, FR
Salt Lake City, UT
Asheville, NC
Colorado Springs, CO
I thought the Michelin Man move was the crux, but I'm short. Aug 18, 2009
Salt Lake City, UT
As of Nov 2010, the Mainline Rap seems like the best way down - 180ft from the tree island to the shiny new rap bolts, about 200ft down to the walk-off. Nov 8, 2010
Boulder, CO
The reason I ask isn't to troll; I'm planning a trip to this area in about six months with the intention of getting several east coast Grade IV or longer routes in (for AMGA prereqs); this route looks awesome, but I want to know if it is actually a grade four on par with Gom Jabber or The Glass Menagerie (in commitment, not difficulty). Thanks guys. Mar 26, 2011
Birmingham, AL
Colorado Springs, CO
Golden, CO
Asheviile,nc
The mainline rappell certainly seems easier than Southender. However, the guide books says to make the first rappell "straight down 190'" which definitely got me off course. It seems the second rappell rings are probably atleast 40' to the left of "straight down". Ended up having to leave some nuts and a .4" cam for the second rap. Jul 2, 2013
Athens, GA
P-1) getting up to the double bolt anchor from the ledge - this is cake - plug in a couple of pieces but this is super basic 5.4/5.5 type stuff (FWIW, I suggest racking up and leaving your packs, etc. under the climb Ruby Tuesday or Irish Jig. Walk ready to climb with your shoes, water bottle, rack and 2 ropes from there along the base, shimmy up the tree and gain the ledge under Out to Lunch, etc.)
P-2) you get a black diamond .4 (3 lobes) about 10' above the bolts - you can clip it short and then go back and extend once you have gear up in the crack - just fire through the early moves and don't get too pumped - - this is probably the crux of the climb and I'd say it does feel 5.10a - - the crack is super fun and backs off in hardness as you go up - about 50' up trend left onto the face and then up another 40' or so of easier slabby face climbing to get to the belay spot - save some medium wired stoppers and a couple of cams for the belay - a #2 Camalot fits nicely
P-3) you can go right or left but most go (climber's) left. you can protect right below "the move" - this move probably is 5.9 but it does feel hard - through up a high foot and get the second hand above - it's all there. Make sure to put a .5 camalot right above the move for your second so if they fall they don't cheese grater the rope across the rock - this is important. The move is a side-pull and a high step - just do it -it's fun - trend up and right to a great belay spot - takes medium size cams, or a slotted stopper - this is a short pitch.
p-4) keep going out to your right to gain the obvious water groove about 40' right of the belay - it's a one step move into the groove (5.7?) and then things get easy. Go up the groove for about 40' and then go right to another good belay spot - - all the hard climbing is now over.
p-5) this isn't really a "pitch" but it avoids Southender Gully which is a PITA. - traverse right about a full rope length - don't go up too much - aim for what looks like a totally loose bolder sitting on a ledge (it might be - don't mess with it) go under it to a giant ledge and find two shiny stainless rap anchors (these are roughly on top of Irish Jig and Ruby Tuesday) - - one rappel (2 ropes) gets you on the ground with plenty to spare (if you followed my P-1 advice, you are right at your pack stash and can hit the trail from here). If you can't find the aformentioned bolts you can go up and right and eventually hit trees - this is Southender Gully - - a bungle in the jungle for sure but you'll make it down. Check out Jeep's technique for using only one-rope on the route too (see above) - this is a very good trick but it absolutely assumes that you will finish the route. Sep 8, 2013
Missoula, MT
Asheville, NC
The bulge is fun and protected by bomber gear at your waist. I can see how this could be be intimidating if you are pushing the grade at Looking Glass but it isn't too bad IMHO. Dec 29, 2013
Princeton, NC
Atlanta, GA
We relocated the tat to a cedar tree about 20 feet downslope of the old tree. The cedar is between calf and thigh thickness, and seemed healthy and solid. It held us. The anchor was thrown together in haste, and in the dark. So it could probably stand to be inspected and/or improved. Nov 10, 2014
Greenville, SC
Cambridge, MA
"The move" felt easier than expected (and I'm not tall - 5'10") - 8+ or maybe 9 - and was a very well protected one move wonder. .3 or .5 C4 puts the crux move on TR.
As far as rappeling, does anyone have any beta for the mainline express rappel other than what's written here? We tried to find it and found the tree with tat that Chuck Parks mentioned -- rapped down and slightly left to a nice set of rings, but then a double rope 60m rappel left me dangling on the slab ~50 feet off the apron on fairly difficult slab moves. It was dark when we rapped so I'm not sure if we missed a set of rings but ended up having to rap off a single bolt and hanger that we found and leave a bail biner. Dec 4, 2017
Seneca, SC
logan, ut
asheville, nc
Some notes....we climbed P4 straight up the water groove for 200'. Didn't commit to either the Southender nor Mainline rappel. We instead fixed a pair of nuts with cordalette and rappelled a full length to the anchors on Irish Jig.
Has anyone asked or attempted adding a well established bolted rappel for this route? Seems odd that this "classic" has one of the silliest and contrived descents. Not to mention that the top of the first pitch has bolted anchors...why not equip the rest of the line? I'd suggest adding anchors on top of pitch 3 and pitch 4. Still a natural anchor on top of pitch 2. That way you could rap the entire line with a pair of ropes. Sep 10, 2018
Salt Lake
Boone, NC
carrboro, nc
To answer my own question:
Pitch 4 is a short pitch around the corner and 30-40’ up the water groove until you can step right on easy ground and find a good belay spot. P5 traverses almost straight climbers right aiming for the big detached headstone. I climbed a bit to high above the headstone and made an easy 10ft. down climb to head to the anchors. I attempted to link 4-5 with a 70....the rope drag was horrible and I was about 10ft short of the anchors, me and my partner did some easy simul-climbing to finish. Luckily we were able to call each other(with poor service) to communicate because at a rope length apart we could neither see nor hear each other
Just follow Drew Dekle’s instructions from above and you’ll be fine. The climbing is a blast! No move felt crazy. I rated the route a 5.8+ for historical purposes. As anyone linked p2-3? I think you would have plenty with a 70 if you could manage the drag. Would be an epic pitch of climbing. Oct 29, 2020
Chattanooga, TN
P2 crux is mental and right of the deck of the anchors. It is protectable with a .4 C4 and .2 or .3 Totem. But you will have to back clean at least one of these once you get gear in the crack. The rope drag would be bad if you left them in. If you lead 5.10 on the regular I would just fire for the crack and enjoy the pitch. I found P2 to be very enjoyable!
P3 Crux is very well protected. Definitely pull the man bulge!
P4 the water groove is climbers right of the belay station around the corner. Here's where you should pay attention to my beta. Once you pull into the water groove you need to be continuously looking right for the chock stone that will help you find the irish jig rap anchors. I got lost in the climbing and passed them by 300 feet.
Because of this choice I got to enjoy two 200 foot pitches up some easy slab that was quite fun and scenic. However, it forced me to either summit and rap off the nose rappel or go down the southender gully rap.
I do not recommend the southender gully as this is what I ended up taking. 3 double rope raps got us down but it was a process for sure. One of the raps was off a slung rhodo that was not very enticing.
Moral of the story dont miss the chock stone! However if you do, you will be awarded with some adventure climbing for sure! May 9, 2021
Broomfield
And To The Trestle, Heh, heh, yes we do love Titties and Beer! .!. Jan 9, 2022
North Carolina
pisgahclimbingschool.com/bl… Feb 21, 2022
Cañon City, CO
get it heh heh heh? it means your little soldier doesn’t salute anymore! Nov 25, 2022
Anyway, I climbed it years ago and thought it was 9 or 9+. Great route.
Fellow Boulderia Wannabe resident, but hopefully not much longer as the same type of sorry people who wanted you to rename the route have infested this place.
Ben Jan 20, 2023
Salt Lake City, UT
The bulge crux was mainly: not trusting the gear below the bulge and then trying to get the feet above the buldge with the hands being so low (scrunched).
5.9+ seems fair.
Had to take Southender Gully especially since it's a maze up there. (be prepared for this route to take some time with pathfinding)... both on the approach and the descent. If you add some sling, etc to make a pull cord, you can rap with a 70, but as mentioned it sucks. Apr 29, 2023
Boone, NC
Asheville, NC
San Diego, Ca
Location of the route: 35.301937, -82.794548
You should be on the saddle/slab. Route is about 150 ft right of Le Pump
Gear used: double rack 0.3 to 3 C4s, red, green and yellow C3s and 2 large offset nuts. (I think a single #3 is actually find. I think I used it on pitch 2 once, which could've used a #2 next to it, and placed it once more on the 4th pitch) Bring at least 10-12 extended draws, with a few doulble shoulder length slings. I used all the slings I had on the last traverse pitch.
I used Drew Deckles pitch break down, but if you want more beta read on
Pitch 1:
A short traversing pitch to double bolt anchors. I would say the moves were more 5.5/5.6 traversing all towards climbers right. Nothing more to explain here
Pitch 2: Sport crux right off the anchors. If you can climb 5.10 face at the gym, this would be a breeze. I started left of the anchors and went straight to the crack. Don't bother placing gear before the crack, just go straight to the bomber hand jams, but this means this would be a no fall zone either because it would be an ankle/leg breaking fall. PG13 if you don't place before the crack but way more pumpier. Continue up the obvious crack system with plenty of places to stem and shake off until you get into a depression for a no hands rest. After this a bulge and then another 30-40 ft of slab climbing. This part wasn't that obvious for me with a lot of traversing left and right to find the right holds and feet. Belay at the highest horizontal crack system which eats large gear. I had to pull up to see my placement so my anchor would be above me for better comfort at belaying. (I think I used a blue, red and a green C4)
Pitch 3: We went left here like all the photos posted. Extend all your pieces as your traverse so you're not fighting drag as you pull the crux. The crux is protected by a bomber 0.4 C4 and I think I backed it up with a yellow C3 a few inches to the right of it. It's an obvious high right side pull and matching left land and high feet. Careful with the feet because its were you're C4 would be. Drew describes a 0.5 placement to protect the follower. I didn't find the placement initially because after the crux i kept climbing until I got a good resting stance. The 0.5 placement will be below you once you find that good stance. The climbing isn't done yet so hopefully you didn't pump yourself out. Still some 5.8-5.9 slab moves until the next anchor. I posted a photo of my anchor system here. I used the crack system below a chopped bolt on the wall. It's obvious once you see it.
Pitch 4: Like Drew said, traverse right for about 40 ft until you find the crack in the water groove. I would use extend all the slinsg during the traverse and double shoulder length slings on the first two placements in the crack, since its basically a 90 degree change. 1st part of the crack eats off set nuts for breakfast. I placed 2 here. Climb for another 40-50 ft until placement in the water groove becomes impossible. I think last piece for me was #3. From here I stepped right onto the slab and climbed for another 15 ft up and right. (I passed a eye brow with a block of loose rock right under it about the size of a shoe. I should've have tossed it, but since it was my first time here, I didn't know want to just toss it without knowing what routes were below). Anchor is about 15-20 ft right of the water groove. You should be able to see the detached/headstone block way climbers right by now, maybe 80ft or so? Anchor can be in any of the eyes brows there.
Pitch 5. My anchor here was slightly above the level of the detached blocked and as I traversed towards it I had to climb above it because it seemed very difficult to stay at the same level of the block. I had to downclimb about 20 ft to the same ledge the block was on when I got close to it. Once you reach the block, traverse another 40 ft till you see bolted anchors head high. I used all my extended slings here and still had a lot of rope drag still. I suggest using double shoulder length slings before making your way down the next water groove to help with the angle and rope drag.
Descent: We left our packs on the slab/saddle near the start of the route because we approached from the nose parking lot. Standard double rope rappel. If I was to do this route again, I would try to do the other rappel that finishes straight up on pitch 5 then traverse left. The "hike" from the bottom of the rappel back to start of this pitch was the worst. It was a lot of bush wacking through the forest and through those thorn infested vines. We initially had a trail we started off with but because of all the fallen leaves, it was impossible to keep track of it.
It would be really nice if a dedicated bolted rappel was given for a popular route like this that ends on the slab/saddle. I don't know why anyone would repeat this route just because of that reason alone. Route was pretty fun though. Dec 11, 2024