drytooling crappy sport route etiquette

so theres a semi chossy 5.12 at a super popular crag that i never see ANYONE touch, and due to position of waterfall is usually half way wet. its where the good rock meets the dirt & grass. 

doesnt seem climbable very often. what are the odds someone starts shooting at me if I show up n start tooling , in this scenario? 

whats the etiquette here

thanks

Do not dry tool on ANY established rock climb. Period. Your opinions of the route are irrelevant.

Nah go get it. When was the last time it was ticked? If it's been over a year and it's half wet I'd do it. Ask some established climbers local to that crag their thoughts. Or just wear all black and go at 2am

as the saying goes, it's better to ask for forgiveness and not permission. send it! 

https://www.atomikclimbingholds.com/dry-tooling-ethics-what-you-should-know

only acceptable if it is on sandstone. I find it is best when a bit damp for friction and tool bite

Probably would be worth reaching out to the FAist of the specific route or the developer/general caretaker of the crag to see if they're attached to the route.

That route you are thinking of dry tooling also has multiple projects in the area round it and above it. The people working on those projects might not enjoy drytooling even in the area around them. Yeah that route is pretty gross, but we've had a good winter. It could end up a lot cleaner in the summer when the water level is down.

Best practice is to make sure you have a secure holster so when someone gets angry about it, you have a bigger banana than them. Also ensure that you are enjoying dry tooling. If some rock climbers come make a fuss that they aren’t enjoying the drytooling, offer them a pick

Arguably, dry tooling is better LNT that those pesky rock climbers. No chalk making a mess of the rocks for other recreationalists

That's a good link, Marc.

As someone just getting into dry tooling, and who might someday get into route development, this is a topic I think about quite a bit.  There's one comment in the article I find interesting: "First and foremost is that, if you’re dry tooling at an established climbing location, you have to acknowledge that the climbers were there first. ‘Finders keepers’ may not be the most nuanced rule, but it actually works pretty well in this scenario. Whoever set the routes intended for them to be rock climbs, not dry tooling lines."  It's interesting because in all the discussions I've read, the "finders keepers" rule seems to be a one-way rule (it applies only if the finder was a rock climber; not if the finder was a dry tooler).  To my way of thinking, it should apply across the board, subject to the overriding "don't be a jerk" rule.

I would also suggest the 300,000 Year Rule: If a chunk of rock has been untouched by human hands for 300,000 years or more, it's fair game! Saving it for some potential rock climbing development that may never happen is sort of like leaving that last hot wing on the plate through another 3 rounds of beers, main courses, and desserts because you don't want to be rude and eat the last one, even though it's clear everyone at the table has had their fill of wings. I'm not suggesting staking out routes on obviously good rock near other developed routes, but if it's a new area and "meh" quality rock climbing, at best, I don't think an enthusiastic dry tooler should be too hesitant to develop it.

John Clark wrote:

only acceptable if it is on sandstone. I find it is best when a bit damp for friction and tool bite

Moonlight Buttress is a great route to practice dry tooling. 

Creed Archibald wrote:

Moonlight Buttress is a great route to practice dry tooling. 

The tool torques on Supercrack are out of this world too!

But in all seriousness, I think this link sums it all up even better than Marc's did

John Clark wrote:

Arguably, dry tooling is better LNT that those pesky rock climbers. No chalk making a mess of the rocks for other recreationalists

THIS!! Time to go scratch up some classics in eldo!

We shouldn't forget our climbing history. Why should rock climbers get to have priority? If we're gonna abide by the 'finders keepers' rule, then dry tooling easily wins. Rock climbing only came into being as an offshoot of mountaineering, which dry tooling is much closer to. 

John Clark wrote:

Best practice is to make sure you have a secure holster so when someone gets angry about it, you have a bigger banana than them. Also ensure that you are enjoying dry tooling. If some rock climbers come make a fuss that they aren’t enjoying the drytooling, offer them a pick

thanks yeah, that actually answers my next question: how are they gonna STOP me

Michael B wrote:

Probably would be worth reaching out to the FAist of the specific route or the developer/general caretaker of the crag to see if they're attached to the route.

That route you are thinking of dry tooling also has multiple projects in the area round it and above it. The people working on those projects might not enjoy drytooling even in the area around them. Yeah that route is pretty gross, but we've had a good winter. It could end up a lot cleaner in the summer when the water level is down.

yeah asking the bolter is probably optimal

Is drytooling on choss really that much different than aggressive cleaning?

You will get so much shit, even if that choss pile has never been climbed.  

As an alpine climber, I often wonder why WE don't do more to develop dry tooling specific areas. Other than the obvious answer that it takes money and time, why is there no development? Of course there are fewer alpine climbers and even fewer who focus on drytooling as compared to sport climbers, but still you would think a few areas would be developed. With the exception of hotbed ice climbing areas like Bird Mine (Ouray) Hyalite Canyon,  and a number in Canada, I can't think of many dry tooling areas. 

It sounds like we need a movment.

People are weird about dry tooling. There is a nasty little railroad cut near me that people have been ice climbing at for awhile. Somewhat recently bolting has increased and some guys have drilled some pockets and made some really cool routes. That got a fair number of feathers ruffled. If we can’t dry tool in a railroad cut where can we? Generally though I do think getting on an established rock climbing route is a bad idea, but I don’t know the area. If it really is a shit climb that nobody ever does it could be really cool to have a sick dry tooling route at the crag. Just be prepared to be a martyr. 

Michael Catlett wrote:

It sounds like we need a movment.

Joseph W. Dutton wrote:

. Just be prepared to be a martyr. 

if i dry tool this route, and the sport climbers cut my toptope - i die a martyr..  in a way, its like i never really die, kuz its for the movement... right?

drytooling jesus is among us somewhere!