Magnus is now selling possibly harmful silica chalk with Rungne. WHY ???

Magnus Mitboe is now selling Maglock which is Silica. He say under his last video that it's silica silylate which is supposedly less harmful.

I've asked gemini and chatgpt to explain if it's harmful.

General silica is known to be highly dangerous when inhaled so:

"Inhaling crystalline silica dust can lead to severe health problems, including silicosis, lung cancer, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD). Silicosis is a lung disease characterized by scarring and stiffening, which can lead to disability and death. Exposure to respirable crystalline silica is also linked to kidney disease, autoimmune disorders, and cardiovascular impairment. "

Silylate silica:

"At normal exposure levels, Silica Silylate is considered very safe when used topically (on the skin) or in products that are not inhaled.

However:

• If inhaled as fine dust (for example, if the powder is airborne), there can be risks — similar to general silica dust exposure.

• Crystalline silica (like quartz dust) is well-known to cause lung disease (e.g., silicosis, cancer), but amorphous, synthetic silicas like Silica Silylate are much less dangerous.

• Chronic inhalation of large amounts could theoretically still irritate lungs and airways."

The issue is that he is basically selling that shit for anyone to be using it in Gym's spreading it on holds and basically polluting the air with yet another product that is there to earn him more money.
What am i getting wrong there ? Is it actually ok ?

The issue is that there arent enough studies showing the extend of the harm but surely it's not something everyone should inhale as a powder.. I'm really shocked that a product like that would be use wide at my local gym. I will for sure contact the owners of my gym to discuss a possible ban of the product.. But it's beyond me that Magnus would sell that shit for profits when the science is clearly going towards a risk for health..

Emman bss wrote:

What am i getting wrong there ? Is it actually ok ?

The issue is that there arent enough studies showing the extend of the harm but surely it's not something everyone should inhale as a powder.. I'm really shocked that a product like that would be use wide at my local gym. I will for sure contact the owners of my gym to discuss a possible ban of the product.. But it's beyond me that Magnus would sell that shit for profits when the science is clearly going towards a risk for health..

Looks like you answered your own question.

Did you search the health risks of gymnastic chalk (magnesium carbonate) as a comparison? They are basically the same as those you've listed for silica (e.g., COPD).

jay2718 wrote:

Did you search the health risks of gymnastic chalk (magnesium carbonate) as a comparison? They are basically the same as those you've listed for silica (e.g., COPD).

it's just not the case you are sharing nonsense without fact checking yourself lol.. Did you search and compare ???

• Indoor gyms = closed spaces ➔ fine powder can accumulate in the air.

• Chalk use (normally magnesium carbonate) already creates a lot of airborne dust
  if Silica Silylate (synthetic amorphous silica) is also used, the amount of dangerous fine particles in the air would dramatically increase.

• Amorphous silica dust (even though safer than crystalline silica) is still harmful if inhaled regularly in high amounts.

  • Short-term: coughing, throat irritation, “heavy” breathing feeling.

  • Long-term (chronic exposure): risk of chronic bronchitis, COPD, and possible emphysema (damage to lung alveoli).

• No confirmed link to cancer for amorphous silica YET but further studies need to be done — chronic lung diseases (like COPD) is a real risk.

• OSHA (U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration) recommends a maximum exposure of 6 mg/m³ of amorphous silica dust in air, averaged over an 8-hour workday.

• Even though amorphous silica is way less dangerous than crystalline silica, it still causes lung stress when inhaled chronically.

• Silica Silylate would stay airborne much longer than magnesium chalk, meaning it would be far easier to reach or exceed OSHA limits in a busy, enclosed gym since it's also spread on holds up on the wall and basically all along the wall.

• It’s a completely unnecessary health risk for climbers, coaches, and staff — especially when safer alternatives exist (like magnesium carbonate).

It's just a very bad idea to use Silica Silylate (or any amorphous silica) as climbing chalk. It would greatly increase inhalable dust in the gym and long-term risk for chronic bronchitis, COPD, possible emphysema — even if we don't have proof it's causing cancer now.. Also OSHA limit shows that even “safer” silica types must be strictly controlled to avoid lung damage.

Magnus is constantly flying around the world performing circus tricks for YouTube likes 

 Hes hawking what used to be low key advantage for high end comp climbers, now every v5 chuffer can get that Maglock lung cough

Seems like every mid level climbing YouTuber is stumping for Rungne's overpriced chalk and clothes.

Magnus was cool for a few years, now he's just another money hungry fluff boy.

Just wear a mask

Eric Moss wrote:

Just wear a mask

Or get the Rungne virus vaccine 

Silicosis is no joke. Its not the same as just irritation. It creates literal scar tissue nodules in your lungs that dont go away. Most of us probably have little exposure to silica dust unless you drill bolts outside (or work with stone products). Can't say I'd be up for using chalk that intentionally adds silica.

Metolius superchalk was the same thing (chalk plus silica) and it sucked but I guess nobody complained about the risk back then. Dried the shit out of the skin under your fingernails. If you like separating your fingertips from the fingernail and don’t mind silicosis I can’t recommend it enough.

Larry Morgan wrote:

Silicosis is no joke. Its not the same as just irritation. It creates literal scar tissue nodules in your lungs that dont go away. Most of us probably have little exposure to silica dust unless you drill bolts outside (or work with stone products). Can't say I'd be up for using chalk that intentionally adds silica.

Doesn't matter if you're up for it or not, if other people use it at the gym you'll be exposed to the dust. 

P Degner wrote:

Doesn't matter if you're up for it or not, if other people use it at the gym you'll be exposed to the dust. 

True enough, but feels like less direct exposure than generating my own, more concentrated cloud of it because its in my chalk bag I keep reaching into and the excess on my hands that keeps generating dust in my face. 

I probably get more exposure to it from cat litter tbh.

This stuff has been on the market as a chalk replacement for at least a year. The only "news" here is a partnership with Magnus. While I agree that the medical effects are not thoroughly studied, having AI models dream up answers doesn't really add anything. The whole marketing pitch for this stuff is as a base coat or one and done chalk replacement, and with the crazy high price point, there is little reason to believe this will have the same levels of airborne dust as regular chalk. If people actually use it as a chalk replacement, it would actually significantly reduce the amount of airborne chalk dust. The OSHA limit you gave is in line with their PARTICULATES NOT OTHERWISE REGULATED numbers, so it isn't really an indication of added concern for this in particular. In the volume of a typical gym, there would need to be hundreds of dollars worth of this stuff in the air at all times to reach those OSHA numbers. I've seen the stuff and it doesn't seem to just poof into the air, unlike normal chalk.

I bought a generic silica silylate from a cosmetic supplier for $65/lb. The stuff works, it feels like if chalk not only kept your hands dry but also made them tacky on demand. That being said, there is no way I'm using it indoors. It stays in the air noticeably longer than chalk and I'm uncertain about the safety profile. I delegated a chalk bag just for silica, and that will be my outdoor exclusive, red point burn only chalk bag that will be stored outdoors at all times. 

Adam W wrote:

The same reason harmful vaccines are still mandated to children and food is filled with artificial garbage.  Profit above all until some regulatory agency bans it

for those interested, here is the MSDS sheet for silica dimethyl silylate ; it is commonly used in the cosmetics industry.  

https://www.makingcosmetics.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-makingcosmetics-master/default/dwdb63450b/msds/sds-silica-dimethyl-silylate.pdf

Excerpt--

Potential Health Hazards: 

Eyes: Not expected to be irritant. 

Inhalation: Not expected to be irritant.

Skin: Not expected to be irritant. 

Ingestion: Not expected to be irritant. 

NFPA Ratings (704): 

Health 0 Minimal 

Flammability 0 Minimal 

Reactivity 0 Minimal 

Specific Hazard N/A

Matt Lisenby wrote:

for those interested, here is the MSDS sheet for silica dimethyl silylate ; it is commonly used in the cosmetics industry.  

https://www.makingcosmetics.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-makingcosmetics-master/default/dwdb63450b/msds/sds-silica-dimethyl-silylate.pdf

Excerpt--

Potential Health Hazards: 

Eyes: Not expected to be irritant. 

Inhalation: Not expected to be irritant.

Skin: Not expected to be irritant. 

Ingestion: Not expected to be irritant. 

NFPA Ratings (704): 

Health 0 Minimal 

Flammability 0 Minimal 

Reactivity 0 Minimal 

Specific Hazard N/A

Anyone try it? Does it work, noticeably?

James Arnold wrote:

Anyone try it? Does it work, noticeably?

It's pretty interesting stuff. Best way I can describe the way it feels to me is it's similar to the feeling your skin gets when it's wet, and drying, and at the very moment when your hands transition from wet to dry, your skin gets this tacky quality that feels like it can stick to just about anything. It also reminds of those days where conditions are perfect for your skin type, where you go outside and the rock feels like Velcro or something. It's also not a sticky type of tack, it's definitely a very dry type of tack.

I'm only using it outside until we have better data on its safety. No reason to risk my own health let alone the health of unsuspecting gym goers around me, and I feel pretty confident that outdoors is sufficiently ventilated for my own risk tolerance.

The thing to do, to see the science, is compare the MSDS for magnesium carbonate and silica silylate.

But does it function well. Most of us will get cancer. But I would rather look back and know i crushed the pink and purple boulder problem on the man wall

Nicholai Petrunin wrote:

I bought a generic silica silylate from a cosmetic supplier for $65/lb. The stuff works, it feels like if chalk not only kept your hands dry but also made them tacky on demand. That being said, there is no way I'm using it indoors. It stays in the air noticeably longer than chalk and I'm uncertain about the safety profile. I delegated a chalk bag just for silica, and that will be my outdoor exclusive, red point burn only chalk bag that will be stored outdoors at all times. 

Do you think it could work to make a liquid chalk with silica added? That seems like it could be a way to easily apply it as a pre-route base cost, without the issues of having a bunch of loose powder silica.