Reel Rock 19- what did you think?

Posting to avoid studying, so I need to make it brief.

Definitely a thumbs up.

3 films, the first a reprise of the Dodo's Delight crew. If you enjoy that genre, I think you'll be happy with this version.

Not my favorite, a little raucous singing goes a very long way for me.

In the second, Kai Lightner tries to rehabilitate the image of Joe Kinder. 

I'm good with that as I always felt he got a bit of a raw deal. YMMV 

And Kai always has an interesting take on things, innocent without being naive.

The final film is the dramatic story of Seb Berthoud and Thomasina and Cedar Pigeon. 

Quite the epic, very touching, but man, I'm not sure it's such a good idea to make their lives so public. 

I certainly wish them the best!

I love the spirit of Sean and Nico, but the footage just isn’t as good.  Agreed on the raucous singing.  Still, 5.13 free on a Patagonia tower.  Absolutely awesome!

I would have liked more in Kai’s film.  He’s an inspiration and sells himself so short.  I thought it was good to put the spotlight on eating disorders but there’s a lot more there than made it in the film.  I thought they did a good job on Joe’s side but I would have liked a bit more resolution.  Maybe he’s just not there yet.  He did a bad thing and bad things were done to him and now that the dust has settled it would be nice to see some good come of it.  Maybe some moderation of internet bullying and cancel culture.  Mostly I don’t want Joe’s whole story to overshadow Kai’s achievements.  Kai is outside the box in so many ways and I think he is truly unique and amazing.

The story of Didier, Tomacina and Cedar is pretty deep.  I agree that putting that much personal life on camera is weird when you factor in the financial incentives.  But it is a unique story.  It definitely brings up a lot of questions about how climbing fits into someone’s life.  Alternate lifestyles for sure.  I loved Tomacina’s frankness.  I hope there story is close to what the movie portrayed.  Cool film.

I liked it all.  I do miss the days of Dosage style close-ups and Rampage numbers of climbs.  I’m also ready for the Hero-struggles-but-ultimately-sends-project theme to fade away.  Not every film needs that.  There’s more to climbing than projecting and it’s not all happy endings.  And I think the brand placement is still too overt.  It’s not hot chicks in North Face bikinis, but I got the feeling BD is financing Cedar’s gap year.

Still, very enjoyable and with some real depth.

Caleb wrote:

I thought they did a good job on Joe’s side but I would have liked a bit more resolution.  Maybe he’s just not there yet.  He did a bad thing and bad things were done to him and now that the dust has settled it would be nice to see some good come of it.

I didn't watch rr19 so this is an aside, but re: Joe Kinder - I listened to a long form interview with him (might've been the nugget climbing podcast) and was genuinely surprised at how little he expressed remorse for the things he was "canceled" for and instead super leaned into victim mentality. I went into the interview expecting to be sympathetic and came out thinking he absolutely is "just not there yet" as you phrased it, even after all these years.

Went to the Boulder premiere last night-the 1st film about Kai Lightner and Joe Kinder was unexpected but really good. The 2nd movie “Riders on the Storm” was outright hilarious and inspiring. Then came the “Cobra and the Heart.”  I had bought tickets for Reel Rock before I heard about the Thomasina Pidgeon and Charlie Barrett controversy. I thought I might hear a few boos in the crowd when the film started or when she came out on stage after. I didn’t, and later did a deep dive into her character reference for Charlie and what crimes he was charged for. What I found was horrifying and can understand why the women he had terrorized wanted Reel Rock to pull the film. Promoting Thomasina, who supported such a violent man, is scary and feels insulting to all those women who fought to be heard for such a long time. If I would have known the backstory, I wouldn’t have gone.  

Was there much climbing in these movies?  

james james wrote:

I didn't watch rr19 so this is an aside, but re: Joe Kinder - I listened to a long form interview with him (might've been the nugget climbing podcast) and was genuinely surprised at how little he expressed remorse for the things he was "canceled" for and instead super leaned into victim mentality. I went into the interview expecting to be sympathetic and came out thinking he absolutely is "just not there yet" as you phrased it, even after all these years.

Watch the movie.  I agree the Nugget interview made him seem a lot more defensive.  The whole thing is a stain on the character of the climbing community.  He seems genuine in his remorse, hopefully some good comes of it.

Jenn Mosier wrote:

Went to the Boulder premiere last night-the 1st film about Kai Lightner and Joe Kinder was unexpected but really good. The 2nd movie “Riders on the Storm” was outright hilarious and inspiring. Then came the “Cobra and the Heart.”  I had bought tickets for Reel Rock before I heard about the Thomasina Pidgeon and Charlie Barrett controversy. I thought I might hear a few boos in the crowd when the film started or when she came out on stage after. I didn’t, and later did a deep dive into her character reference for Charlie and what crimes he was charged for. What I found was horrifying and can understand why the women he had terrorized wanted Reel Rock to pull the film. Promoting Thomasina, who supported such a violent man, is scary and feels insulting to all those women who fought to be heard for such a long time. If I would have known the backstory, I wouldn’t have gone.  

That might be going in the wrong direction.  Thomasina has the notoriety to show the whole Barrett horror to a larger audience.  Cancelling her just makes another bad outcome.  

Some light reading if you want to inspire you’re own opinion on the Cobra and the Heart controversy… 

https://reelrocktour.com/blogs/news/an-important-conversation

I’ve read enough that I really don’t know what to think. Some of the survivors of CB are in support of Thomasinas redemption and see accepting her apology as part of the healing process, others see her apologies as non serious and a forced PR stunt.

Kai Larson wrote:

Was there much climbing in these movies?  

Too 90s. 

Jenn Mosier wrote:

Went to the Boulder premiere last night-the 1st film about Kai Lightner and Joe Kinder was unexpected but really good. The 2nd movie “Riders on the Storm” was outright hilarious and inspiring. Then came the “Cobra and the Heart.”  I had bought tickets for Reel Rock before I heard about the Thomasina Pidgeon and Charlie Barrett controversy. I thought I might hear a few boos in the crowd when the film started or when she came out on stage after. I didn’t, and later did a deep dive into her character reference for Charlie and what crimes he was charged for. What I found was horrifying and can understand why the women he had terrorized wanted Reel Rock to pull the film. Promoting Thomasina, who supported such a violent man, is scary and feels insulting to all those women who fought to be heard for such a long time. If I would have known the backstory, I wouldn’t have gone.  

Remember the days when people sought entertainment to escape the horrors of the world for five seconds...

I can’t be the only one that misses the climbingnarc days. Someone needs to bring back the Dosages and Progression type films. I don’t need to have this many emotions while watching “climbing” videos. 

Go Back to Super Topo wrote:

I can’t be the only one that misses the climbingnarc days. Someone needs to bring back the Dosages and Progression type films. I don’t need to have this many emotions while watching “climbing” videos. 

Last year I rewatched all the old Dosage movies and was so glad I grew up with those instead of what they're producing now. 

climbing00 wrote:

Last year I rewatched all the old Dosage movies and was so glad I grew up with those instead of what they're producing now. 

Whenever I lose my psyche on climbing I put on Dosage V or Progression!

Daniel M wrote:

IDK, imagine going on social media these days. People advocate murder of certain CEOs. People have fully dedicated meme pages to making fun of Elon Musk in a similar vein to what Joe did ( I almost see a meme everyday calling Elon fat or making fun of his hair plugs). During free solo there were memes making fun of honnolds now wife Sanni. Its essentially okay to bully people if they are disliked by a majority of people. 

What's your takeaway ... Kinder's complaints about being canceled are justified because his bullying was tame compared to today's standards? Bullying is ok but bullying the bully is not okay?

I don't know enough about the past circumstances to make a judgement whether JK got what he deserved. But that one interview conveyed to me that his cancellation didn't make him do much reflection, nor consider his victims over himself. Perhaps that came across at the time and made his case of cancel culture worse for him.

Daniel M wrote:

IDK, imagine going on social media these days. People advocate murder of certain CEOs. People have fully dedicated meme pages to making fun of Elon Musk in a similar vein to what Joe did ( I almost see a meme everyday calling Elon fat or making fun of his hair plugs). During free solo there were memes making fun of honnolds now wife Sanni. Its essentially okay to bully people if they are disliked by a majority of people. 

Really? People online making fun of the wealthiest human being on earth, who also owns Twitter and seems to have license to destroy the US government is compared to creating sock puppet accounts to stalk and bully a young woman over her eating disorder? Oh, and Elon himself bullies others left and right.

Maybe try harder.

I agree that discourse online is a shit show, but if Elon Musk is your showcased "victim"....

climbing00 wrote:

Last year I rewatched all the old Dosage movies and was so glad I grew up with those instead of what they're producing now. 

I don't know, I mean I absolutely love Rampage and getting psyched watching hard sends. But you can still get that kind of material for free watching Mellow or any of the other content from any pro climber on Youtube these days. I think what some of these other filmmakers are doing is something different - trying to tell a compelling story that isn't just about rad bros crushing. Meru and The Alpinist are great examples of this new type of film. I thought the story about Thomasina Pigeon and Didier Berthod was amazing and really well done.

I’m pretty sure Joe Kinder said “I’m really sorry.  I did a really shitty thing”, while crying in this movie.  It looked genuinely remorseful to me.  He could go farther and actually try to work against some of his own shitty behavior, but he’s on the right track.  

In the Nugget interview he did come off as really frustrated and upset.  But he apologized there as well.  I think getting cancelled and losing your career is pretty traumatic.  It would probably be hard for anyone to not have some resentment.  

https://www.outsideonline.com/2309306/what-we-can-learn-climbings-bullying-saga

Daniel M wrote:

The point I am making is that society told Joe that bullying is wrong. Then a bunch of people bullied him. So the conclusion he probably reached isnt that bullying is wrong, it is that who you bully is whats important. Now I am not justifying his actions, I am just trying to articulate the rationalization that he likely made. Why him being unapologetic might not be an absolutely irrational behavior. 

I only used him because there a clearly a surplus of memes about him right now.

True.

?

Elon is only a victim in the event a bunch of people call him fat and ugly and therefore unfit to govern. Him destroying our government has nothing to do with his waist size or hair plugs, he is clearly unfit to govern for totally separate reasons. 

Andrew if you did a bad behavior and people sent you death threats how would you feel about that behavior? Particularly if the behavior was bullying? 

Thanks for clarifying your thoughts. I'll do the same.

I don't have a strong opinion about Joe Kinder. He did something really shitty that made advertisers/sponsors not want to be affiliated with him. So they dumped him. Which is totally fair and, BTW, the epitome of free speech/free expression. Nobody owes anyone else a sponsorship. I'm unaware of Kinder being "bullied" in the sense of stalked, threatened, belittled, etc. If so, I agree that's also bad behavior. Certainly Sasha didn't do that.

Regarding Musk. Painting him as any kind of victim just strikes me as silly. He has enough resources that he can push back and fight back with massive retribution. If he decided he didn't like this very conversation it would be trivial for him to just buy and shut down MP, for example. He could sick teams of lawyers on you or I. He's nobody's victim except, in the long run, his own. I happen to agree with you that his bad actions have nothing to do with whether he's fat or not or ugly or not. Plenty of actually relevant things to criticize about him. He could also look like Brad Pitt and he'd still be an awful human. He's also unequivocally a cyber bully himself.

I've had people send me death threats, Daniel. It ain't pretty. I'm not suggesting anyone deserves that.  

Boy I sure would hate to read any feedback about the movie itself instead of rehashing the same Joe Kinder drama for the N+1th time

Personally, not into Joe's redemption storyline overshadowing Kai's accomplishment. I'd be fine for him to appear in the film because he's a part of the story, but I don't know, it doesn't sit great with me. I think any 'Joe redemption' story without a resolution, mending, or input from Sasha is inappropriate. I agree with other comments. Him losing sponsorships is fine, that goes along with free speech. He continued his behavior for years and should feel the consequences of his actions. At the same time, I think healing is always available, but I don't see healing/mending here.

Bottomline, I found making this storyline overshadow Kai's was distasteful. They could have a blip about the same thing for him, but make the film title & main storyline focus on Kai, please.

Let's just keep focusing on the fun and journey of the sport. Keep social politics to the side, they can still be there, but maybe not as the main attraction.. That's just how it sat with me.

Someone can be a kind person, but they absolutely can and do act differently from one person to the next.

Anyway... next adventure in store?! Back to climbing..