Grivel North Machine Carbon.... Good???

I am at the point in my ice climbing that I believe every other tool will allow me to be a better climber. 

I am looking for WI3/alpine/ski mountaineering tool. I have the Petzl Quarks but the trigger never sits well in my hands. The metal also makes my hands feel cold. Who has experience, negative and positive, about the North Machine Carbons. 

Thanks!

The North machines (carbon or otherwise) are fantastic alpine tools. So are quarks, sparks, vipers etc… pretty hard to go wrong these days. If the quark doesn’t work for you, the North machines might be the ticket. Stick with the normal, forged, pick and stay away from the katana or total ice etc… picks. 

Graham Johnson wrote:

The North machines (carbon or otherwise) are fantastic alpine tools. So are quarks, sparks, vipers etc… pretty hard to go wrong these days. If the quark doesn’t work for you, the North machines might be the ticket. Stick with the normal, forged, pick and stay away from the katana or total ice etc… picks. 

I’ve climbed on my katana ice and razor picks for years with no problems personally.  Forged picks are way to thick 

Different strokes for different folks. 

Graham Johnson wrote:

Stick with the normal, forged, pick and stay away from the katana or total ice etc… picks. 

What are your thoughts on the total ice picks, I see they are meant for pure ice (b rated) but I’m considering tools with these picks for ice

*obligatory BD Cobra rec*

Sorry, couldn’t help myself...but for real - Treat yourself to the finest piece of precision engineering to grace ice climbing since sliced bread.

*Individual opinions may vary

ZT G wrote:

*obligatory BD Cobra rec*

Sorry, couldn’t help myself...but for real - Treat yourself to the finest piece of precision engineering to grace ice climbing since sliced bread.

*Individual opinions may vary

I will back this up. Cobras beat the shit out of every other tool on pure ice, buy them and never look back.

and yes I do own nomic, x dreams, hydras, dark machines and a few more tools. So I’m more than qualified to say cobras whip ass.

Voice of dissent- I've owned North Machines and Cobras and definitely prefer the swing of the North Machines.  For climbing dense, virgin "hockey rink turned vertical" ice there isn't a tool that I've tried that I would prefer.  Ergo style tools are definitely better for "hookey" climbing like drytooling or beat out ice fest climbing.   The swing of the NMs takes a lot less of an exaggerated flick of the wrist compared to an ergo tool.  Definitely a short learning curve.

Ice Rock Sparks are going to be better overall: lighter, actually carbon (North Machine isn’t really carbon, it’s like 5% carbon in a mostly cosmetic wrap that delaminates around the aluminum shaft), and more comfortable.

Shameless plug for the pair I’m selling:
https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/127188158/fs-brand-new-ice-rock-spark-ice-tools-carbon-fiber

Here’s the retail link: https://verticallstore.com/products/ice-rock-spark-ice-tool

Another "real" carbon fiber tool is the Trango Kestrel. NOT just a carbon overlay on aluminum like the Grivel. And, being Trango, the picks are cheaper and easier to get than I imagine the Ice Rocks will be, especially a few years down the road.  And - coincidentally - I do have a pair to sell. Imagine that!

Mitch L wrote:

What are your thoughts on the total ice picks, I see they are meant for pure ice (b rated) but I’m considering tools with these picks for ice

I have climbed on the total ice on dark machines but to be honest the dark machines are such a compromised tool that it’s hard to evaluate how the picks performed. I like the normal forged ice picks on both tech machines and North machines- never had an issue with getting good sticks, they are plenty durable and just perform well all-round I think. 

Gunkiemike wrote:

Another "real" carbon fiber tool is the Trango Kestrel. NOT just a carbon overlay on aluminum like the Grivel. And, being Trango, the picks are cheaper and easier to get than I imagine the Ice Rocks will be, especially a few years down the road.  And - coincidentally - I do have a pair to sell. Imagine that!

Dude…

Christian Donkey wrote:

Dude…

Its called capitalism sweetie

Pat Marrinan wrote:

Its called capitalism sweetie

Lol. You’re not wrong.

However, he didn’t miss a beat. Shit was cold.

Whatever Mike is selling his tools for I will beat his price by at least $1.

Christian Donkey wrote:

Lol. You’re not wrong.

However, he didn’t miss a beat. Shit was cold.

Whatever Mike is selling his tools for I will beat his price by at least $1.

Sounds like a good deal.  Starting price is... "One MILLION dollars"

So what about the difference in the carbon vs aluminum north machines?

A few grams (can’t remember exactly but it’s not many) and a slightly different swing. You’ll still get excellent performance out of the non-carbon North machines. 

Christian Donkey wrote:

Ice Rock Sparks are going to be better overall: lighter, actually carbon (North Machine isn’t really carbon, it’s like 5% carbon in a mostly cosmetic wrap that delaminates around the aluminum shaft), and more comfortable.

Just an aside from the conversation, any opinions on ice rock products? I don't see any of their tools in the wild but I do get interested when I see a aspeed or a skeleton in an old photo. The technical specs on all their products really interest me

Seemed like every guide in Chamonix had an ice rock idol a few years ago. Mine is too pretty to use. 

The tool question goes on forever. I've bought and sold and even bought again just about every modern tool on the market in the last 20 years. Try everything find what you like, get after market picks. Then be low key elitist about it. This is the way