Family Trip up Mt. Rainier

My 12 year old and 2 teens and I are planning and training for a summit attempt of Mt. Rainier this coming summer, likely July.  I've finally reached a time in life where I have both time and money for such an adventure.  Although Rainier summit has been a dream since going to school in Seattle 20 years ago, we are only recently getting serious about climbing and mountaineering.  Some common challenges that I think we'll be able to manage are altitude (summit attempt will be a couple of days after arriving from Denver), endurance (teens and I are training for a marathon and 12 year old, a half marathon that we will run in June), and weather (we will have 4-5 days in July to wait for an acceptable window).  

I'm hoping to use this forum and some other resources to stay motivated and gather advice that will refine our training and skill set objectives.  I'm happy to answer questions but will also ask the community for input on gear, itinerary, and other resources that will be helpful for our goal.  As a background, we have done several Colordado 14ers together and took a guided trip up Easton Glacier (Baker) last summer.  We didn't make the summit but weathered out on July 25 (a solitary poor weather day surrounded by an otherwise beautiful week).

Current training includes 2-3 days per week of indoor climbing with about 20-25 miles per week of running.  We have a 2 day mountain school schedule for one month from now in Rocky Mountain National Park where we hope to dial in some glacier travel and high angle (crevasse) rescue skills.  There's not a lot of resources out there for young mountaineers.  Any recommendations?  Google search pretty much yields articles about young Everest climbers, which is outside our scope.

Does everyone agree that Disappointment Cleaver is the best route for beginners like us?  How many days should we expect, single push, 2 days, 3 days?  More questions to follow.  Cheers All!

Why not go with one of the guide services?

 Disappointment Cleaver is a good choice for beginners. 2-3 days seems reasonable for your first summit, especially with acclimatization and weather in mind. Great to see the whole family involved  your marathon training will definitely help with endurance. Best of luck!

Guided or not is certainly a reasonable consideration.  We had guides on Baker.  Perhaps I was too deferential, but we didn't get much say on how to handle the poor weather.  We ended up starting our summit day at 3 or 4 in the morning, right when the foul weather was coming in, as forecasted by the forecasting services.  Leaving 3 hours earlier or 5 hours later would have provided   a better experience.  

Beyond the cost of the guides, which is not a serious obstacle, (probably about 12k for the four of us), the biggest advantage of going unguided becomes the flexibility of waiting out poor weather.  We can travel on our schedule rather than someone else's schedule.

I've dragged ultra-marathoners to the summit of Rainer. Tight on the rope the whole time. More important than logging miles is training with weight on (40-60 lbs).

Sounds good, we'll work in some weighted repeats on the Manitou Incline this spring. 

Here's another question.   For our 4 person rope team, I'm thinking I'll be the last, put the 16 year-old first and the 12 and 14 year olds in the middle.  Does that seem reasonable?  Any other configurations make more sense?  Would you change order on the descent? DC route should have minimal route finding challenges, especially July, I just want to be able to keep an eye on things and take some pictures when the chances come up.

My opinion would be you lead the team up. Route finding will likely be easy, but you still will need to assess snow bridges / crevasse hazard. If you are last, and any of the young ones do actually slip and fall, they might rip each other off and by the time they all whip on you at the end you now have to hold 3 people sliding down the mountain. You first, 12 year old, 14 year old, 16 year old last. 35-40' of rope between everyone and extra rope coiled on each end.

On the way down, 16 year old first (downhill) to do the route finding, 14 year old, 12 year old, and you above everyone, again to hold any falls from the top as the likely strongest person.

By July there will be a well defined cattle trail so no significant route finding issues. There will still be cracks to deal with. While they should be manageable going in one is always possible. Fortunately, there will typically be many people around. Whether they have the skills to assist is always a question. For your family, the order proposed is most reasonable as you will be the anchor weight. Tell the 16 year-old that by going first they are what is known as the crevasse poodle.

If you are doing to do the DC and have good weather window I suggest people hike to Muir and spend the night there, then move up to Ingarham Flats for another night. Ingarham Flats is 1000 feet higher than Muir. It gives one a break from the slog up to Muir, an extra day to acclimate, and a shorter summit day.

Regarding guides. Your comment about leaving earlier or later shows some naivety.  Leaving earlier would have meant being up high when the storm hit. No place to be. Had you left later, there would be warmer temps and softer crevasse bridges. So an increase in danger. That said, the storm hitting on the summit day does suck because you are for the most part on the guide's schedule. If on your own, you can wait out day. Higher the right guide that may be possible. On Rainier there are three guide companies plus a few individual guides. I do not know what they offer in terms of private guiding but it might be worth investigating. 

I think what you propose is doable. My first climb of Rainier was 2 weeks after turning 16. The DC route is a good choice, you don't need a guide.

As weather is often a factor for success and quality, can you set aside more dates or more days to improve the odds for good weather?

The route is roughly 2 days of 4,500ft. gain; however, that 2nd day comes with little recovery, little sleep and elevation impacts. Three days will help and provide more summit timing options. Four is even better. With several days, one can advance camp from Muir to Ingraham Flats, to shorten the summit gain and provide more recovery time.

For prep, a combination of carrying a heavy pack, hours of hiking (especially on snow), elevation gain and snow camping will help.

Others will give you plenty of advice about getting fitness. I will offer this:

If you want success and safety, buy a guide. This will allow you to enjoy the trip and relieve some of the pressure of being directly responsible for every move your children make. You will still be their hero, I promise.

Safe climbing.

Regarding our Baker guide experience, the implication of the weather being in the clear 5 hours later is that summiting the next day would have been a better option not ascending at the wring time of day, just would have meant a day of playing cards in the tent while it rained.  The "wait a day" was within the trip duration but never offered as an option by the guides.

Appreciate the team order recommendations from Allen and Gee.  I'll be running the same question past our mountain school instructors next month and see if they concur or have other thoughts.

Private guides other than the 3 concessionaire contracts are not allowed on Rainier.  However, we'll definitely appreciate the route support and information available from the guided groups and NPS rangers out of Camp Muir. Also, I think we will try to camp at Muir for the pit toilets (one female climber in the group).

Sorry to cram bunch in a single post but there seems to be a daily limit on post numbers...is inappropriate to tip guides that provide recommendations, route-building services, etc even if they aren't hired?  What is a good range?

You really need focus during your upcoming training on glacier travel and crevasse rescue, and everyone down to the 12 year old need to be dialed in…in case any one of the party members in the one who has to initiate rescue.

Add in weighted stair master. When I trained for rainier I put a 45lb plate in a backpack and hit the stairs for 90-120 minutes non stop (obviously built up to that).

Cardio training without the strength training to handle weight of packs and elevation gain is not enough on its own.

Lastly I’d familiarize yourselves with the DC route. Things like the timing of your days, do you want a 2 day summit push or want a day at the flats as well for a 3 day attempt, do you know where the biggest hazards are and at what time of day things become most objectively safe, do you know where the worst “exposure” is and how people in your party will react in areas where a fall would be catastrophic? You can get a ton of this info in very detailed fashion on YouTube.

Dad Jokes wrote:

Sounds good, we'll work in some weighted repeats on the Manitou Incline this spring. 

If you are in Denver, Mt Morrison is much closer and provides close to 2000' of vert in under 2 miles. I used Morrison for weighted carries when training for objectives in Alaska and PNW.

Thanks Rick, we just finished a course w Colorado Mountain School working on setting up drop C and direct haul systems. Lot's more practice to dial in on these.  We also identified more rope team practice will help us be more efficient on the mountain, too, like clipping into fixed line or established protection and transitioning from glacier interval to kiwi coil/short rope for the cleaver.  Weighted training is coming, but the descent on an incline is more punishing than descent on a snowy or slushy slope (Muir Snowfield).

Nick, we'll take a look at Mt. Morrison.  You're hiking up from Red Rocks or just the road from Idledale?

Dad Jokes wrote:

Thanks Rick, we just finished a course w Colorado Mountain School working on setting up drop C and direct haul systems. Lot's more practice to dial in on these.  We also identified more rope team practice will help us be more efficient on the mountain, too, like clipping into fixed line or established protection and transitioning from glacier interval to kiwi coil/short rope for the cleaver.  Weighted training is coming, but the descent on an incline is more punishing than descent on a snowy or slushy slope (Muir Snowfield).

Nick, we'll take a look at Mt. Morrison.  You're hiking up from Red Rocks or just the road from Idledale?

some Advice for the decent.. carry water jugs up and then dump them.. saves you're knees on the decent but gives you the weight for uphill. This is my preferred method. save any 2 liter or gallon jug you can get you're Hans on since there are 4 of you you'll need a lot! lol

Allen Sanderson wrote:

If you are doing to do the DC and have good weather window I suggest people hike to Muir and spend the night there, then move up to Ingraham Flats for another night. Ingraham Flats is 1000 feet higher than Muir. It gives one a break from the slog up to Muir, an extra day to acclimate, and a shorter summit day.

This is what I did one time many years ago when I climbed it.  Much nicer summit day than when I pushed it from Muir to the top another time.

Also gives you a cool, two nights at "altitude" and in tents, etc. with the kiddos.

Depending on your kids, that can be really fun.

I would also say that you do not need a guide for the DC route, esp with what you have already done in prep, but that is obviously your call. 

Dad Jokes wrote:

Nick, we'll take a look at Mt. Morrison.  You're hiking up from Red Rocks or just the road from Idledale?

Start from the South Ridge Trailhead at Titans Rd and Bear Creek Rd. 

On the training side, a few weeks of 2x/week weighted 1 hr stairmaster sessions should sharpen that marathon training. Have fun!

Nick Quesnel wrote:

Start from the South Ridge Trailhead at Titans Rd and Bear Creek Rd. 

Hit this hike, yesterday.  2k elevation in about 65 min, felt good but will add weight as the spring progresses and see how it goes. 

For Rainier Permits, just waiting for the backcountry permit lottery to open up and crossing our fingers that government austerity measures doesn't block our trip.  Any other advice on permitting?  We have some flexibility on our climbing window, so hopefully that helps.  We're even willing to head to White River if we can't get the DC/Muir permits.

Once upon a time, I spent a winter, spring, and half a summer in Laramie, WY (7200 feet) mountain biking constantly in preparation for the local 70mi mountain bike race.

A week after the race, I left for a backpacking trip that involved a single day up from 8000’ to 11000, and then down to 10000, over the course of like 3 miles (the glacier trail out of Bomber Basin). That single day ended the trip. I had nothing left to keep going with.

All of my unweighted training, even at elevations up to 9000 feet didn’t mean shit once I put on a climbing load.

Get some weighted stairmaster training in.

Next question is which way should we push training from here...more weight (12 yo only weighs 70lbs, so probably will top out at 15lbs/20% body weight for him), more distance, more time, more altitude, or which combination of these?