Am I On Crazy Pills?: Ouray Winter Camping

Is it reasonable to car camp in Ouray in January for an ice climbing weekend?

Context: Planning double AK expeditions for next spring and summer. A trip to the Ruth Glacier for some snow and ice and then a trip to Denali to try the West Buttress. The team is spread out geographically, so we're planning some training trips. First is an ice climbing weekend in Ouray in January. I am lobbying to camp so that we can practice our campcraft skills and systems together. The others want to stay in an Airbnb. Some think it's too dangerous to camp. Others think it's just too uncomfortable and that it will detract from the ice climbing. To me it seems like a valuable training opportunity, and if we can't survive/stay reasonably comfortable winter car camping for two nights, then we probably shouldn't try to go to Alaska.

Who is taking crazy pills in this scenario?

I don't think you're on crazy pills but it's also possible for multiple truths to exist and be equally valid at the same time. 

Getting your winter camp skills and systems, particularly those of self care, dialed is really important for where you're going. It's possible to do some of that in the area surrounding Ouray. You should try to work together, and independently, to develop these things, especially if you haven't done them before. It should definitely be a priority for your team because this is where things fall apart, especially on a West Buttress trip where the camp is moved often. A static basecamp in the Ruth can be a bit more forgiving to a learning curve, but still tough and dangerous if you are clueless. 

At the same time, Ouray can be a miserably cold place to try and learn these things. Potentially a lot colder and more miserable (particularly due to darkness) than Alaska, but that really depends on the weather at the time you go. Winter camping skills for glacier living are often best gained a bit later in the winter when the temps are a bit more forgiving, the sun during the day is warmer, and the snow is denser and more like what you will encounter in AK. A backcountry trip to specifically work on these things could be more beneficial than a combined trip where you are trying to climb and work on these things so that mistakes in one area don't ruin the ability to work on the other.

Much of the gear that you would take to go climbing in Ouray is not really the same gear that you'd take to Alaska. Sure you can take your double boots, big gloves, parkas, down pants, etc. but much of that is not needed and will take away from the fun and training effect you can get from the climbing in Ouray. However, if you're winter camping in Ouray, that gear will be necessary to stay warm, and to be able to get it dry at night. Single boots are really difficult to get dry at night when winter camping. Not having dry boots could possibly pose a problem for safety if someone gets their toes frozen by the moisture in their boots. 

Staying in an AirBnB as a team could be valuable for a lot of other aspects of your planning. You could gather around the table at night and work on your menus, grocery lists, group gear lists, strategies, priorities, etc. This is really valuable if you aren't able to sit down frequently as a team. It will also allow you better rest to get more out of the climbing you are doing. 

There's no right answer in your scenario, just different ways of viewing it. I don't think anyone is "taking crazy pills." 

Get an Air bnb or Vrbo with hot tub as safety back up.  Pitch tents in the yard/on the deck.  Hopefully it’s well below zero.  Get drunk in hot tub and then exit tub and roll around in the snow (simulating bad judgment and misery at altitude) Stand there cold and wet until first person “caves” and puts on clothes.  Then go to tents for the night.   See who is first to leave tent and go inside or get back into hot tub.  

You have then identified your weak links (actually you already have with those who claimed “it’s too dangerous”).   Anyone who never caved and stayed out in the tent or bivy sack the whole time —basically stupid and stubborn enough to waste a shit ton of money just to suffer needlessly — are your true alpinists.  

I'd agree with Nate,  while you certainly could safely camp around Ouray finding a good spot to do so is more problematic than it would appear, and it's dark and miserable for a long time, why miss out on an enjoyable time climbing ice and putting in time with the other people to go camp where you will be spending the majority of your time huddled up in a sleeping bag?

I’ve camped in Ouray in the winter. It was just the back of my truck, not a tent.

While driving around in my 2wd pickup to find a place to sleep, I became stuck. So that is where I slept. The next morning someone came by and pulled me out.

The biggest issue was drying gloves. Everything else doesn’t get that wet. I went to coffee shops and friends’ condo’s. If you’re pretending that you’re on a glacier, I honestly don’t know what to do.

Mark Pilate wrote:

Get an Air bnb or Vrbo with hot tub as safety back up.  Pitch tents in the yard/on the deck.  Hopefully it’s well below zero.  Get drunk in hot tub and then exit tub and roll around in the snow (simulating bad judgment and misery at altitude) Stand there cold and wet until first person “caves” and puts on clothes.  Then go to tents for the night.   See who is first to leave tent and go inside or get back into hot tub.  

You have then identified your weak links (actually you already have with those who claimed “it’s too dangerous”).   Anyone who never caved and stayed out in the tent or bivy sack the whole time —basically stupid and stubborn enough to waste a shit ton of money just to suffer needlessly — are your true alpinists.  

I'm pinning this response to revisit as a candidate for the 2024 MP Golden Gote Award. Last year:

I camped for a week my first trip to Ouray. Had the camp spot all to ourselves! Site selection is key- having sun in the morning is very nice.

Also, whoever has said “it’s too dangerous” should be cut from the team and stick to bouldering in the climbing gym. 

Ive tent camped for winter 14ers in CO many many times. Its cold. Its work. Its also beautiful and rewarding. 

Also, having done the west butt, I think one of my main attributes going into it (besides strong legs) was an extensive winter camping background between Minnesota and Colorado. Most of the time up there is winter camping, so its an important skill.

Saw so many people who learned how to function in those conditions on the mountain. Glad I wasnt one of them.

Pack / drag / ski all your crap up the Camp Bird Road. Setup a camp for a couple of nights and do the ice climbs along the road. Anyone who can not make it up the road is the weakest link and stays home.

That said from your post it sounds like your first trip to the AK range. You will probably find that one objective will be enough for a first visit.

Allen offered you a good solution. I commend you for working on your winter camp craft before going to Alaska. Having camped in the Rockies for climbs and in Alaska, Alaska may be easier of the two. 

Good luck.

Thanks for all the great responses! Lots of food for thought.

Some friends and I did this for 5 days in Bozeman, in December, leading up to a trip to the Alaska range. I had been winter camping a bunch but never combined with long days climbing and I feel like we learned a lot about drying clothes. It felt low consequence since we totally would just go get a hotel room if it sucked.

It’s not crazy or dangerous. In fact, it’s a good idea. You could easily get stuck in a tent in AK during a storm, and for more than 14 hours. There’s more to training than long hikes and climbs. Big climbs are just as much a mental challenge as a physical one. Probably more so. So you better exercise your mental “muscles”.

Decide what your goal is. If it’s to get more comfortable climbing ice, get and AirBnB and maximize climbing improvement. If your goal is to get winter camping systems dialed, take your tent, sleds, and other equipment up Red Mountain Pass and sleep up there for a a night or two.

I’m of the opinion whenever you try and combine two things, you don’t really accomplish either. 

Birdmans right. We winter camp here and there in AK for ice climbing and it’s almost religious that when a tent is involved vs a hotel room or my van we climb 50% of the pitches we do otherwise. Camp maintenance, sled pulling, drying stuff, cooking over wood all sneaks up on ya. All in good fun, but if you’re hellbent on mileage you might be disappointed.

to expand on my earlier comment, your winter camping practice will represent your time on the west buttress much more than any ice climbing.

a closer training trip would be winter camping and easy 14ers

Ouray is probably the warmest of all N American ice climbing destinations, weather-wise it's generally not a crazy prospect to camp there. As Grant said, the hard part is finding a spot to camp in the first place. Eureka area might serve you better, not only on camping but also the cardio + altitude + general suffering part.

You said you guys are planning multiple trips right? I would suggest to keep it normal on your ice climbing vacation. Get a hotel so you can dry your ropes etc. On a different trip, do some legit winter camping. For example Mountaineer's Route on Mount Whitney would be a good combination of somewhat technical scrambling at high altitude that is ok to beginners, especially with climbing experience. Or anywhere you can go backpacking/snow camping and haul a bunch of weight. I'd suggest late March for Whitney, just in case you consider it.

Bring the stove you want to use in Alaska so you can play with it. 

Have fun!