Beartooth Alpine picks

I hit some rock with my ice hawk picks. Definately not the ideal pick choice for thin ice. It almost instantly blunted the tip with a peck through hollow section of ice. Both picks are in desperate need of a good touch up with file. I may have to invest in the master scratcher picks. 

Scott Biegert wrote:

I hit some rock with my ice hawk picks. Definately not the ideal pick choice for thin ice. It almost instantly blunted the tip with a peck through hollow section of ice. Both picks are in desperate need of a good touch up with file. I may have to invest in the master scratcher picks. 

Charlie: “Gives you all the performance benefits of a thinner taper while retaining rigidity and durability.” 

Maybe not?

Charlie was in Cooke City for the fest this weekend.  He delivered and installed mine on Friday morning for testing.  Thanks Charlie!  I really like them.  Super sharp. Feel good and look great!  I can’t say I bashed any rock but I did lightly swing into thin ice and the tips don’t show any wear.  Beartooth had a selection of the more popular tools with both their ice picks and mixed picks for demoing.  

Christian Donkey wrote:

Charlie: “Gives you all the performance benefits of a thinner taper while retaining rigidity and durability.” 

Maybe not?

 I will have to give them a fair test on thicker ice. I did buy a set of pure ice picks and them climbed verglas with them, so I am not going to complain about the durability. I will share my experience when I get out on some solid ice.

Master Scratchers... took them out for the first time today hoping for ice, found only bare rock. Did 4 pitches on hard volcanic rock and was thinking, sh!t there go my nice new sharp picks. Honestly, they look only slightly worn, definitely still sharper than stock picks after a day of ice. I didn't swing into rock which helps, but I did use one tool to hammer the other in a seam several times; definitely impressed. They handled well on thin edges too, really steady. One complaint is that the hole on top, right above the tool head, can catch in the gate of an ice screw clipper (managed to do this twice today) which wasn't great while trying to lead a chimney, but now I know about it I think it is controllable in the future and I know how to fix it quickly.

Scott Biegert wrote:

I hit some rock with my ice hawk picks. Definately not the ideal pick choice for thin ice. It almost instantly blunted the tip with a peck through hollow section of ice. Both picks are in desperate need of a good touch up with file. I may have to invest in the master scratcher picks. 

the ice ice beta podcast interview (posted on previous page) they do a good job of explaining the picks - the impression i got was that master scratcher is for both ice and mixed (which is the niche they did not see other picks doing well) while the ice hawk is more specialist pick that is thinner than most ice picks, and really just for ice (and probably fat ice, as you found)

Steven Dunnavant wrote:

banana colored x dreams   

Mitch L wrote:

the ice ice beta podcast interview (posted on previous page) they do a good job of explaining the picks - the impression i got was that master scratcher is for both ice and mixed (which is the niche they did not see other picks doing well) while the ice hawk is more specialist pick that is thinner than most ice picks, and really just for ice (and probably fat ice, as you found)

The impression that I got from Charlie was that the ice picks are best suited for difficult and very hard/dense ice of suitable thickness. He mentioned that they are well suited to tapping or scratching because of the beaked shape, but also pointed out that if you make a pick this thin there isn't a metal that's going to withstand being swung into rock without some consequence. 

Picks placed well without displacing much ice.  Ice was thin and wet. I look forward to trying on cold brittle ice.

Just want to say I’m loving the master scratchers

However I would like to file a formal petition for beartooth to make a batch for the old style BD tools, a cobra with an ice hawk or some master scratchers for my fusions would be pretty sweet!

Kevin Mcbride wrote:

Just want to say I’m loving the master scratchers

However I would like to file a formal petition for beartooth to make a batch for the old style BD tools, a cobra with an ice hawk or some master scratchers for my fusions would be pretty sweet!

I’ll piggy back on Kevin’s suggestion and would love some for my Reactors. 

Brent Moore wrote:

I’ll piggy back on Kevin’s suggestion and would love some for my Reactors. 

My understanding is that if there's enough interest (don't know exact numbers needed) for older tools or a more obscure brand, they'll consider making some next summer. Trango Raptor, DMM Cortex and an older Grivel model or two have been discussed.  

What is in the best interest of the community (which I make up a majority of), is Beartooth first gets on to the greater good of making front points, specifically for Harfang Techs and Bladerunners, and then they can get around to picks for older tools.

They actually hinted at making a complete crampon on the Ice Ice Beta podcast, which I feel has been the neglected area in ice climbing gear.

Brent Moore wrote:

I’ll piggy back on Kevin’s suggestion and would love some for my Reactors. 

Cobras 

Another for the cobras 

Cobras!

My perspective on the master scratchers, and the durability claims, some context:

• The Beartooth picks are an excellent product and I’m happy with my purchase. 
• I’m in my second season of ice and have climbed fewer than 200p of ice/mixed, so take this perspective with a grain of salt.
• I bought the Master Scratchers for three main reasons and because of these I'm not disappointed: The integrated hammer: Low profile and lightyears ahead of competition. The Pick Shape: The top mohawk and lower spikes resemble those found on drytooling picks, which are great on hooked out ice and low angle topouts. The company: Supporting a local montana business run by passionate and genuine people who are also supporting some of todays top alpine climbers. 

After using the picks on a recent ice climbing trip to Canada, I wanted to share some observations: 

• Marketing vs. Reality: Beartooth says: “it climbs ice better than stock pure ice picks but with 2x their durability. Unique, wear-resistant metal choice for lifespan.” 

  • Ice Performance: Yes they climb ice better than stock picks, I was purring like a kitten on the first pitch I climbed with them.

  • Tip Durability Issues: Both I and other climbers experienced tip curling after minor contact with rock. While I literally bottomed one out in thin ice (definitely my fault), others experienced the same curling of the tips with even light taps or on approaches. Whether is curls 2x less than Petzl Pur'Ice, idk. maybe.

• High Performance Mixed Terrain: The scratching performance is impeccable. After the same pitch of scratching around and drytooling on limestone, the pick that avoided the direct tip impact showed no wear. I dont have any data points for harder rock types.

• I believe there is an inherent tradeoff in pick design between Durability and Performance that climbers need to understand. It is not that Beartooth is using metal from Temu, is just the physics of the pick shape and fact that there is just less mass of metal in and around the tip to support high impacts. I think there's a spectrum similar to wind resistance and breathability in jackets:

  • Durability: Picks with no taper and more mass (e.g., drytooling picks) are sturdier but sacrifice performance on ice.

  • Performance: Picks with aggressive tapers and less mass (e.g., Pur’Ice picks) prioritize performance on ice but lack durability.

  • The Beartooth picks have the performance slider maxed-out and sit at the that end of the spectrum, which explains the curling issue when encountering rock.

After filing the curl off and restoring their intended pick shape, I also noticed another thing. The picks are made from a soft metal, likely not hardened steel. Unlike hardened steel (crampons or stock picks) which files off in a very fine dust, the beartooth material files off in larger chunks/sheets (felt like i was sharpening aluminum). I would be interested to know what this mystery material is and how/if its treated. While this softness simplifies filing on route, it kind of directly contradicts the durability claims. I feel as if the master scratchers were marketed as all terrain tires but what i got were Pirelli P Zeros. I just wish i understood that before absolutely destroying one of them on my first mixed pitch with them, but i was scared and probably would have swung just as hard even if i knew.

TLDR; The Beartooth Alpine Ice Picks are, without a doubt, the highest-performing ice and mixed picks available and satisfy that niche of the market. However, their cutting-edge performance comes with a tradeoff: reduced durability for rock impacts. They are meant for ppl who are precise and delicate on mixed terrain and dance up approach ice avoiding all rocks. Not GoBros that swing into rock. Do buy them, but understand the tradeoffs that are present and how careful you need to be on thin ice and approaches to maximize the tip life.

Despite all this, i am happy with them, and they are still my favorite picks.

@TT - spot on review, I echo everything you said.

I too hit rock (quite hard) the first day out with the Scratchers and curled the tip, but still really dig these picks. Highly recommend but time will tell how long they last because they do seem to require frequent touch up.

And FWIW, I was able to add the Camp/Cassin pick weights to X-Dream Scratchers by not using the inner weight, just the two side pieces. This is like adding half weights. I was under the impression they were designed to not accommodate weights. The hole was definitely not cut perfect for the weights. Maybe I'm weak, or maybe Beartooth just can't bend the law of physics, but I think they perform better with weights. This is especially true in chimneys and ice caves where one can't get a full swing. I feel that Beartooth deciding that pick weights were unnecessary was a strange call.

It’s not just the thinness, it’s the hardness too. I haven’t put in enough time on mine to have complete thoughts (nor am I good enough for anyone to care…) but taking them out drytooling the first time I torqued them in a crack they were very compliant. Which is good! I don’t think the very thin armor steel aftermarket picks are reliable because they explode rather than flex and bend.

Of course, the tradeoff is that the finer the edge, the harder the metal needs to be to keep it from rolling, and it does not surprise me that they do. Overall I agree with the design decision—I’d rather have a compliant, thin pick that I may have to give a little bit of attention to than the alternatives. 

We’re gathering some interesting and more realistic data beyond the initial claims…They also seem oddly brittle based on how my friend’s broke:

Spopepro O. wrote:

It’s not just the thinness, it’s the hardness too. I haven’t put in enough time on mine to have complete thoughts (nor am I good enough for anyone to care…) but taking them out drytooling the first time I torqued them in a crack they were very compliant. Which is good! I don’t think the very thin armor steel aftermarket picks are reliable because they explode rather than flex and bend.

Of course, the tradeoff is that the finer the edge, the harder the metal needs to be to keep it from rolling, and it does not surprise me that they do. Overall I agree with the design decision—I’d rather have a compliant, thin pick that I may have to give a little bit of attention to than the alternatives. 

I’m thinking you probably haven’t used a Krukonogi pick in about 10 years.