Devil's Tower

https://www.kotatv.com/2024/09/23/climber-death-devils-tower-national-monument/

Saw this, wondering if he rapped off the end of the rope or lost his grip somehow. Super sad to hear especially at Devil's Tower.

Condolences to his family and climbing partner.

If you look at the deceased tick list he gad climbed Soler, rapped El Cracko woth a 66m rope and climbed El Cracko...and ticked it before making his way down on rappel.

This leads me to believe that fatigue had set in because he had just rapelled the route presumably an hour or two before so he would have know the rap stations.

I know people say to tie knots on the end of their ropes. Well that is a great idea knots do come out. Knowing a rappel and watching your ends are always good ideas.

Seems a good reminder to put stopper knots on the ends of your rap lines since that is almost guaranteed to be what happened.

Steve Pulver wrote:

Seems a good reminder to put stopper knots on the ends of your rap lines since that is almost guaranteed to be what happened.

Or a missed strand.

There but for the grace of god go i.

Bb Cc wrote:

Or a missed strand.

There but for the grace of god go i.

Can confirm he rapped off the short end taking the rope with him. Ends were uneven, on a 70m chopped to 66m without a middle mark. Super sad, my heart goes out to his family.

Leslie H wrote:

Condolences to his family and climbing partner.

If you look at the deceased tick list he gad climbed Soler, rapped El Cracko woth a 66m rope and climbed El Cracko...and ticked it before making his way down on rappel.

This leads me to believe that fatigue had set in because he had just rapelled the route presumably an hour or two before so he would have know the rap stations.

I know people say to tie knots on the end of their ropes. Well that is a great idea knots do come out. Knowing a rappel and watching your ends are always good ideas.

A good knot, like your stopper knot should never be a knot that can come undone. Much like your figure 8. 

Surprised that NYT picked this up, but o real updates.

https://archive.is/fQT67

It was unclear what had led to Mr. Porter’s fall

We were a party on Bon Homme that day. After I rappelled down around 4:30 pm, I stopped by the solar/TAD/Cracko wall and took a photo. I believe it was that party on Soler. The follower was on the second pitch.

Later when we hiked out and finished dinner at the restaurant right out side of the park, I took a photo of the tower and saw someone was still on the wall. It was 7:38 pm. In retrospect, the accident was just about to happen at 8 pm…
The day after (we still didn’t know anything about the accident happened), we climbed to the tower’s top via Durrance. We took a photo of the record book. I believe the latest one was from the accident party. We got to know the fatal accident after we descended Durrance and had dinner at the golf court restaurant that night by hearing from a local people.

 Extremely sad. RIP. and everyone should take safety the highest priority!

I will delete this post if someone thinks it is not proper to post the photos. But it really shocked me. The fact is that we supposed to climb Solar and El Cracko Diablo that day….

Since his partner was stranded, can we asume the rope pulled through?

Nikki Schnupp wrote:

Since his partner was stranded, can we asume the rope pulled through?

Jiggs Casey wrote:

Can confirm he rapped off the short end taking the rope with him. 

Bridget Tye wrote:

A good knot, like your stopper knot should never be a knot that can come undone. Much like your figure 8. 

But alas, stopper knots do come undone by the force of an uncontrolled falling climber. In which case, a third hand and awareness is crucial. I will quote the master, Andy Kirkpatrick
" Secondly, the force of a climber’s descender hitting an Overhand knot tied only a few inches from the end of the rope could simply roll the knot off, or even be sheared off, if using a sharper ‘framed’ descender. Also, if using a figure-8 descender, the knots would simply pass through the descender, thus indicating that any stopper knot needs to be one that is clipped into your harness. And so this subject requires a little more thought."

And

"Will A Stopper Knot Save Your Ass? Looking at the reality and effectiveness of traditional end knots, their actual role is primarily as a hand stop, to tell the climber they have reached the end of the rope, and not to stop a plummeting climber who has somehow lost control. This might sound like something that would not happen, that you’d notice, that you’d grab the rope before it whipped through your fingers, but unfortunately, the many fatalities prove this not to be the case. It’s all too easy to be so focused on looking for the next anchor, going further and further, that the rope just slips through your hand. The stopper knots do a great job at stopping this from happening. Better still, if you’re running a back-up-hitch then this is likely to catch you on the stopper knots before they hit your device.

As for stopper knots arresting a climber from hurtling off the ends when they’re out of control (they’re not using a back-up-hitch), then there are more variables at play, such as the size of the rope, the knots used and how much tail is out. But none of these are a guarantee."

This tragedy is truly a shame for a such a young climber in the peak of their life. I try to avoid commenting on the Mountain Troll, but I think it is important to press upon the community: 

Climbing is not black and white. Situations call for various solutions. Climbing is inherently dangerous. No, a stopper knot is not always the solution. Yes, it is a FANTASTIC sugesstion for most abseling situations. Here, it sounds like it could have potentially saved a life if properly applied... Although not guranteed. 

MA D wrote:

But alas, stopper knots do come undone by the force of an uncontrolled falling climber. In which case, a third hand and awareness is crucial. I will quote the master, Andy Kirkpatrick
" Secondly, the force of a climber’s descender hitting an Overhand knot tied only a few inches from the end of the rope could simply roll the knot off, or even be sheared off, if using a sharper ‘framed’ descender. Also, if using a figure-8 descender, the knots would simply pass through the descender, thus indicating that any stopper knot needs to be one that is clipped into your harness. And so this subject requires a little more thought."

And

"Will A Stopper Knot Save Your Ass? Looking at the reality and effectiveness of traditional end knots, their actual role is primarily as a hand stop, to tell the climber they have reached the end of the rope, and not to stop a plummeting climber who has somehow lost control. This might sound like something that would not happen, that you’d notice, that you’d grab the rope before it whipped through your fingers, but unfortunately, the many fatalities prove this not to be the case. It’s all too easy to be so focused on looking for the next anchor, going further and further, that the rope just slips through your hand. The stopper knots do a great job at stopping this from happening. Better still, if you’re running a back-up-hitch then this is likely to catch you on the stopper knots before they hit your device.

As for stopper knots arresting a climber from hurtling off the ends when they’re out of control (they’re not using a back-up-hitch), then there are more variables at play, such as the size of the rope, the knots used and how much tail is out. But none of these are a guarantee."

This tragedy is truly a shame for a such a young climber in the peak of their life. I try to avoid commenting on the Mountain Troll, but I think it is important to press upon the community: 

Climbing is not black and white. Situations call for various solutions. Climbing is inherently dangerous. No, a stopper knot is not always the solution. Yes, it is a FANTASTIC sugesstion for most abseling situations. Here, it sounds like it could have potentially saved a life if properly applied... Although not guranteed. 

Aside from walking off the formation I can’t think of any situation on a multi pitch rappel when I would choose to forgo a stopper knot on my rope ever, but to each his own. (Feel free to educate me, on something other than user error)

I think telling people stopper knots aren’t necessary, or trust worthy, after reading this post is wild personally.

However I totally agree a Prussix or third hand of your choice is absolutely brilliant and redundant.  But I would feel silly and unsafe using my prussix while forgoing my stopper knots. 

Bridget Tye wrote:

Aside from walking off the formation I can’t think of any situation on a multi pitch rappel when I would choose to forgo a stopper knot on my rope ever, but to each his own. (Feel free to educate me, on something other than user error)

I think telling people stopper knots aren’t necessary, or trust worthy, after reading this post is wild personally.

However I totally agree a Prussix or third hand of your choice is absolutely brilliant and redundant.  But I would feel silly and unsafe using my prussix while forgoing my stopper knots. 

Knots are fine AND looking at the end of your rope on a rap when you know you will be close is CRUCIAL.

In other words pay attention.

This climber had just rapped this route earlier.

His mp tick shows he knew he was on a 66m rope for a 70m rap.

Knot or not, he chose to use a rope shorter than needed, IMO.

We all know accidents happen on the way down..walk offs, or rapping.

Exhaustion, adrenaline, etc play a role.

My point is redundancy...that has always been a thing in climbing.

Knots alone dont save lives...peoole do.

Choosing the right rope length for a rap and watching the ends of the rope are bare minimums in  my playbook.

B Zhou wrote:

Could you redact out the names on the last image? I know his climbing partner is grieving and would like to have some privacy.

Bridget Tye wrote:

I think telling people stopper knots aren’t necessary, or trust worthy, after reading this post is wild personally.

It’s almost like you ignored the entirety of the comment you’re quoting. Andy Kirkpatrick is more knowledgeable than you or I or most people we’ll ever climb with, might wanna go back and re-read what you’re disregarding.

Jiggs Casey wrote:

It’s almost like you ignored the entirety of the comment you’re quoting. Andy Kirkpatrick is more knowledgeable than you or I or most people we’ll ever climb with, might wanna go back and re-read what you’re disregarding.

What is it with folks these days, thanks Jiggs.

the point is a “stopper” knot is a misnomer. The knots many climbers commonly use as a safety knot, commonly come undone under reasonable kilonewtons…. 

MA D wrote:

….As for stopper knots arresting a climber from hurtling off the ends when they’re out of control (they’re not using a back-up-hitch), then there are more variables at play, such as the size of the rope, the knots used and how much tail is out. But none of these are a guarantee."

This tragedy is truly a shame for a such a young climber in the peak of their life. I try to avoid commenting on the Mountain Troll, but I think it is important to press upon the community: 

Climbing is not black and white. Situations call for various solutions. Climbing is inherently dangerous. No, a stopper knot is not always the solution. Yes, it is a FANTASTIC sugesstion for most abseling situations. Here, it sounds like it could have potentially saved a life if properly applied... Although not guranteed. 

Seems he is not taking exception to Andy Kirkpatrick. 

Mitch Dorsk wrote:

…  did I ever say not to tie a stopper? No….

You said they l “never come undone” …. They do and if you’ve seen enough you’ve seen they do…If you take time to inspect many of the “stopper knots” you come across, you will find many half fisherman knots tend to be undone by the time you reach them…. This seems to be a commonly used knot, “stopper” knot, yet, it commonly comes undone without being dressed extremely well… it also rolls on itself with weight and comes undone. If you are truly concerned about rapping off the end of your rope, tie it back to yourself…. The point of Andy’s quote is that a “stopper” knot doesn’t truly exist. Many cannot hold amounts of weight.

Please re read the original quote if you have any concerns, thank you. Be safe, but maybe don’t think so black and white with climbing is all I’d say to a young, stoked climber. 

I am going to remove this shortly out of respect for the deceased. 

I like the idea of the “Mikey Schaefer” method: clip the rope ends to your gear loops (with an overhand on a bight or whatever).

In practice when you’re changing over at an anchor, one of the rope ends whips all the way down below, and some folks don’t want to take the time to pull it up.

Wishing peace for family and friends. 

JaredG wrote:

I like the idea of the “Mikey Schaefer” method: clip the rope ends to your gear loops (with an overhand on a bight or whatever).

In practice when you’re changing over at an anchor, one of the rope ends whips all the way down below, and some folks don’t want to take the time to pull it up.

Wishing peace for family and friends. 

A "stacked" or "pre-rigged" rappel solves the issue of the second end not having a knot. Standard practice in the guiding world.