Climbing in Red Rocks. Are double 50m ropes enough

Hello,

As mentioned in the title I am planning a Red rock trip.  When searching what kind of rope I need I found an old thread about singles (70) or double (60).
I have double 50m rope s which I normally use when in the Verdon Gorges. Would they suffice or do I really need double 60?

PS: I learned to multi pitch in Europe and I like climbing with doubles. Instead of the double 50 I also have a single 70 which I use where I live around Boston. I can take that but that seems a bit short and buying a second single rope of 70m seems excessive 

I think you’ll find double 50s to have great utility at RR. Just watch the beta to avoid route and descents where longer rope(s) needed.

Benoit Cerrina wrote:

Hello,

As mentioned in the title I am planning a Red rock trip.  When searching what kind of rope I need I found an old thread about singles (70) or double (60).
I have double 50m rope s which I normally use when in the Verdon Gorges. Would they suffice or do I really need double 60?

PS: I learned to multi pitch in Europe and I like climbing with doubles. Instead of the double 50 I also have a single 70 which I use where I live around Boston. I can take that but that seems a bit short and buying a second single rope of 70m seems excessive 

I lived in Vegas and climbed in Red Rock for 13 years. Double ropes on the long multipitch routes work very well, especially since the gear can wander on some of them. There are probably many where you can get away with 50m but many are also set up better for 60m. With careful route selection and enough homework, you can probably do it without buying new ropes, but it might keep you off of a route you would otherwise really like to do. The single 70 is worth bringing because many of the newer routes were equipped for rappels with a single 70. 

I’ve only been on one trip to RR so I’m hardly an authority, but it made me start looking into either a half or twin rope setup. There are definitely some routes where in theory, you could do okay with a 50 or a 60, but more than once the best belay spot would have been just out of reach without a 70. And for rappels - you can do the descents with a single 70, but we would have saved a lot of time and sketchy down climbing if we had 2 70m ropes to rappel with. Not sure if 2 50s would cut it or not, but at least that would be better than a single 70m.

I've climbed in RR with 60m half ropes a bit and never found myself wanting for longer half ropes, and can't remember too many times where I used the full 60 and didn't have other options for belaying sooner. Most of the time I had rope left over. I think you will be fine with your double 50s and can do almost any route you would care to climb.

Thanks for all the responses, I think I'll bring the doubles.  

The single 70 is worth bringing because many of the newer routes were equipped for rappels with a single 70.

If the rappel can be done with a single 70 (35m max) it will be OK with a double 50.

Our group is fairly big and I am sure there will be others with single ropes.  I have "Red Rocks: A Climber's Guide " but at home and not with me I hope the topo indicates the length of the rappel with each route or at least when they are specially long.

You should be good for rappelling with double 50m ropes Benoit but I would make sure to check all of the pitch lengths for any multipitch you are going to be doing.  Red Rock has some very long pitches on classic multis where a 50m might not get you to the anchor.

Benoit Cerrina wrote:

Thanks for all the responses, I think I'll bring the doubles.  

If the rappel can be done with a single 70 (35m max) it will be OK with a double 50.

Sure. My point was that having the single 70 is convenient for some specific routes as well as the fact that cragging on doubles is less enjoyable. And while you may believe you will only multi-pitch climb while in Red Rock, there is some truly great single pitch climbing and it can be an alternative when multipitch climbs aren't the option for the day. 

Thanks to all.
@NateC you are perfectly correct that I will likely not just multi pitch.
I have a lot of multi pitch sport experience from climbing in France mostly in the Gorges du Verdon (around 30-40 routes in 12 years).
Since I moved to the US I only climbed on the East Coast close to Boston and in particular Rumney and Farley were I have sent a number of 5.12.

However I have very little trad experience. I have followed a few multipitches and I have lead a single 5.9 and a single 5.10 trad routes in Farley. From now to next March when I am going to Red Rocks I intend to practice trad and crack climbing but it is not my strong point.

With that in mind I am looking at what I want to climb there. I was recommended “Prince of Darkness” and “Unimpeachable Groping”

So based on the experience I discussed do you have recommendations for climbs?

PS:maybe I should start a different thread in another forum. 

Benoit Cerrina wrote:

Thanks to all.
@NateC you are perfectly correct that I will likely not just multi pitch.
I have a lot of multi pitch sport experience from climbing in France mostly in the Gorges du Verdon (around 30-40 routes in 12 years).
Since I moved to the US I only climbed on the East Coast close to Boston and in particular Rumney and Farley were I have sent a number of 5.12.

However I have very little trad experience. I have followed a few multipitches and I have lead a single 5.9 and a single 5.10 trad routes in Farley. From now to next March when I am going to Red Rocks I intend to practice trad and crack climbing but it is not my strong point.

With that in mind I am looking at what I want to climb there. I was recommended “Prince of Darkness” and “Unimpeachable Groping”

So based on the experience I discussed do you have recommendations for climbs?

PS:maybe I should start a different thread in another forum. 

Definitely get used to multipitching in the east. Lots of good spots (N. Conway and area, Cannon etc.). Biggest thing is to get clean at building anchors and transitions, as that will save you a ton of time. You don't necessarily need lots of crack for RR as it's all about route selection, but lots of good cracks in the east (reppys, inferno, cathedral etc.). If you want a training day, upper cliffs at Pway is right next to the boulder field with bunch of different crack types, so easy enough to practice for a bit. 

The friends I usually climb outdoors with are very experienced trad climbers and mountaineer so as mention I am practicing with them, working on my gear placement.

Regarding transitions I am not sure it is that much different from multipitching sports.

Regarding setting up anchors, yes need to work on that too as they are indeed different from sport based on what I have seen.  Mostly need to use 3 points instead of 2 (increased redundancy is understandable considering it will be based on pieces vs bolts.  Sill not really that different once you know how to do it with bolts.

Benoit Cerrina wrote:

With that in mind I am looking at what I want to climb there. I was recommended “Prince of Darkness” and “Unimpeachable Groping”

So based on the experience I discussed do you have recommendations for climbs?

PS:maybe I should start a different thread in another forum. 

It's difficult to recommend climbs to a new trad leader that I don't know, but I'll do my best. 

I think the two that you have mentioned here are a good choice if you want to place gear, but have plenty of bolts as a backup. The gear on PoD can be small at times, which may or may not be the most inspiring for you as a new leader, but the climbing should be well within your ability. Someone who climbs as hard as you state you do, will likely find Unimpeachable Groping to largely be a sport climb and you won't place much, if any, gear. Both of these are routes that people love and shouldn't be skipped, but if the purpose of the trip is to work on placing gear, I might suggest finding climbs that have a lot less bolts. Even if that pushes your grades down a bit so that you can feel comfortable. 

You can add these to your list as you see fit, but I believe that these routes are classing in quality, and offer you the opportunity to place gear, and I've chosen them because they are at a similar grade to the two you've suggested...

Sour Mash, Dream of Wild Turkeys, Triassic Sands, and Sick for Toys. 

I'm trying really hard not to sandbag you or anything. If you have questions, feel free to DM me. I've been gone from the area for 10+ years now so some of my knowledge is getting a bit dated. 

Thanks NateC,

Indeed Unimpeachable Groping based on the topo seems to be a pure sports climb it also seems to be the only reasonably long multi pitch in the area.  That is something I feel very confortable with and enjoy hence I put it in my list.  PoD seemed also mostly sports with one or two easier pitches being trad (according to what my friend told me.  I don't have the guide book with me right now).

I will definitely look at the one you suggested.

Benoit Cerrina wrote:

The friends I usually climb outdoors with are very experienced trad climbers and mountaineer so as mention I am practicing with them, working on my gear placement.

Regarding transitions I am not sure it is that much different from multipitching sports.

Regarding setting up anchors, yes need to work on that too as they are indeed different from sport based on what I have seen.  Mostly need to use 3 points instead of 2 (increased redundancy is understandable considering it will be based on pieces vs bolts.  Sill not really that different once you know how to do it with bolts.

Nope, nothing is complex, but taking 10 minutes to transition VS 5 starts to add up when you have a lot of pitches. 

Rope length needed for rappels varies quite a bit. Best to check the requirements of the individual routes on MP, and especially reading the recent comments in case there are newer rap lines, which is common. The route description often doesn't reflect the new rap beta. Personally I don't like bringing two ropes unless its a party of 3.

The book you have may be an older one, so even less up to date info on raps. We are on the 2nd edition, "Red Rocks: A Climbers Guide II" but the 3rd print run of it, and every time he has done a print run, he has updated it without actually changing the page count or the "II"... So you may be the equivalent of about 4 versions out of date.

You may want to post in the Nevada forum.

Hello,

I have the second edition and I just bought it a week ago so I hope I got the latest.

I personally like double ropes which I think is reflecting that my multipitch experience was in France but the friends I am going with don't like it.  Seems like the US way is single rope and extend a bunch of alpine draws and the Euro way is to have double rope and clip on each side limiting the drag while not having to extend the draws.  In France we say "In Rome do as the Roman do" so I think I'll go with a single 70m rope and if the book says you need two will take two singles which seems heavy to me.

Benoit Cerrina wrote:

I personally like double ropes which I think is reflecting that my multipitch experience was in France but the friends I am going with don't like it.  Seems like the US way is single rope and extend a bunch of alpine draws and the Euro way is to have double rope and clip on each side limiting the drag while not having to extend the draws.  In France we say "In Rome do as the Roman do" so I think I'll go with a single 70m rope and if the book says you need two will take two singles which seems heavy to me.

If anywhere in the US rewards climbing with two ropes its in red rock. I’ve almost always done multis there with two 60ms, so cant help on the general “is 50m ok” question. Like others said, I’d go with the twins and check the routes you want to climb.

@John Sigmon,

thanks for the reply, I have still time till March which is good.  

70m is nice for certain routes in Red Rocks as it lets you link pitches and eliminate some crappier belays. I know I certainly appreciated it for P2 and 3 on Olive Oil, but wasn't a dealbreaker.