Continue with onX Maps
Sign in with Facebook
Climbing grades indoor vs outdoor
|
I have been climbing on and off for a couple of years, primarily in the gym but I venture outside quite a bit. In my local gym, I can easily climb 5.12 but when I get out onto real rock I struggle with 9s. I assume it's a fear factor because I have sent a few 11as on TR. Even so, isn't 11a "easier" than a 12+ in the gym? They don't compare that well because climbing in the gym is very different from climbing outside. Hoping someone can help me with this. thanks |
|
The easiest and most honest answer is the gym makes money off you feeling good about the grades you climb, the rock doesn’t. The medium answer is that outdoors is stylistically different. If you went to overhanging featured limestone you would probably climb better. The hard answer is your footwork sucks and you live in CO |
|
Another factor many indoor-to-outdoor climbers mention is the lack of marked holds. +1 to what John said about different styles and gyms wanting you to come back. |
|
What would be the best way for me to improve my footwork? I can't get a coach because of my schedule. |
|
It's been covered fairly well already but to put it bluntly, gym grades mean pretty much nothing when it comes to climbing well outside. Climbing hard in the gym is great for developing climbing fitness, finger strength, and learning to move as a climber in a very controlled environment - all of which are important in building a foundation from which to begin to develop outdoor climbing skill. So much of becoming proficient outside is learning to read rock of various types and routes of varying styles, and being able to quickly adapt to that rock type and route style to transfer your skills to whatever is in front of you. Developing a strong mental state and being able to climb at your limit outdoors takes time, and realistically some people never are able to get their lead game together outside due to fear which is totally ok btw, it's just that climbing well outdoors requires some similar but many different skillsets than climbing well indoors. None of this is said to discourage or demoralize, quite the opposite really. Outdoor climbing is an entirely new challenge to work on and get good at. It's exciting and it's good to be humbled so you know what you need to work on and then before you know it you'll be stoked on getting closer to matching your indoor and outdoor grades. |
Shea Ingalls wrote: I’m being genuine here….
People could probably blast me and state all the actual training exercises you and can do (indoors) to get better footwork but, given your initial post, I’d just climb outside more. If you can go crush an overhanging 12 in your gym, go find a 5.9 slab or more technical climb outside. Ones that force you to “dance” with the wall and rely on being calm.
|
|
Oh and one last thing…I checked your to-do list and you have some dope looking climbs in there! Tagging along with what I said above, I would pick a harder outdoor climb (looks like you have a super popular 11c on your list) and go consistently work it. Top it as many times you need to get comfortable, then try leading it. Maybe that’ll be bolt to bolt but no one cares…as long as you start feeling confident with the beta and lead head. Next thing you know, you’ll work up to leading it clean. I think that would be a great proving point to yourself…if you can knock out an 11c outdoor on lead, I’d imagine your confidence in outdoor grades would become more tangible. |
|
On top of what everybody else has mentioned in this thread, I also try to take the FA year of the route into mind when I’m looking into doing a route, I primarily climb at the red and if a route was established in the 70s or 80s I can usually assume it’s going to feel a little stiffer than the more modern routes in the surrounding areas. |
|
A wise woman once told me: Indoors = 2 dimensional climbing. Outside = 3 dimensional climbing. That being said I wish that the gyms would have invented an indoor grading scale back at the start of it all. |
Guy Keesee wrote: When the first gym opened locally here, the managers, recognizing the differences between indoor and outdoor climbing, did introduce an 'independent' grading system ( using letters instead of numbers, if I remember correctly). However, since almost all of the folks using the facility were already outdoor climbers, they immediately started 'translating' the gym grades to the YDS and before long the managers gave up and did the same. |
Guy Keesee wrote: When’s the last time you climbed at a gym? With volumes and macros it is often more dimensioned than outdoors. |
John Clark wrote:  |
|
It is possible to replicate outdoor climbing inside, it’s just not marketable. I learned to climb in an old school gym where the wall is featured with ripples, demanding you to choose and find your feet, tape all over the place with crowded routes on top of eachother requiring you to find even the handholds, and the way climbs got harder was with smaller holds and more techy and intricate beta to find. Translated perfectly to most outdoor climbing and the grades were spot on. It’s the modern overhanging jug hauls and slopers style that gives me the most difficulty. |
Cosmic Hotdog wrote: Maybe the places I climb outside are pretty flat… |
|
I started climbing in new school gyms and still gym climb consistently, so nothing old school from my background. I think "gyms make money by making you feel good" is only valid below 5.11, because that's the casual majority. Beyond that grade people are often dedicated enough to be honest with their own progression. I have higher sports redpoint grade outdoor than indoor. If you want to improve your outdoor climbing, it's not just "climb outside more". You gotta be more strategic and it will be the best to have mentors (or at least buddies at similar grades that wants to push the grade together). Gym beta are relatively easy to figure out but very physical/pumpy. Outdoor is much harder to read. The key is to bank up enough moves/experience. I find having local beta very helpful because it speeds up the experience accumulation process. Wasting 2 hours trying to figure the crux sequence on 11a is not an effective way to learn. Gym climbing mostly climb a "wall". But outdoor climbing often revolves around climbing some features (arete/dihedral/seam/flake/tiered roof/tufa/crack etc.), and not all these features routinely appears in the gym. You need to get on a diverse amount of features to develop your technique. |
|
1. Gym grades are meaningless 2. Gym climbing teaches you about half of what you need to know to climb hard on rock, the rest comes with experience. Knock out a few hundred outdoor leads and it will feel as smooth and natural as indoor climbing does now. |
|
It's connect the dots vs. Jackson Pollock |
John Clark wrote: Haha your comment just made me laugh because it was so literal. Like yes, gym walls are typically more "3d" than climbing outside is relative to the size of the holds but outdoor climbing is quite a bit more involved, thought provoking, demanding, etc. |
Cosmic Hotdog wrote: haven’t climbed outside much, so this is good insight |
|
Y’all need different gyms. I climb at least a grade harder outside than in that greasy, hot gym. |
|
Everyone is talking about gym grades but this seems much more likely to be a headgame issue. If you can TR an 11a but struggle to lead 5.9, the issue clearly isn’t (all) physical. How often are you taking lead falls? If the answer is not very often, then there’s your problem! Start taking some practice falls. I think the best way to develop outdoor technique / routereading is just to do lots of it! Grades will come with time. |
