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Bioavailable Proteins - Post a day

Original Post
Frazer · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 0

I know I don't get enough protein in a day.  Post an example of your given days intake here for examples that folks could use to hit those targets.

Bad example unless you're like 120 lbs below

  • Breakfast:
    • Protein shake (vega with greens), spinach, yoghurt non-fat plain, half banana, mixed berries w/kale, almond milk (Carb 56g, Protein 32g, Fat 6g)
  • Snacks between meals throughout day:
    • Slice whole wheat bread PBJ, sourdough pretzels, hummus and baby carrots, almonds (Carb 86g, Protein 24g, Fat 42g)
  • Lunch:
    • egg/cheese/spinach omelete on flour tortilla (Carb 24g, Protein 23g, Fat 21g)
  • Dinner: 
    • Chana masala with kale (Carb 57g, Protein 13g, Fat 8g)

So that gets this day to 91g protein and it feels like you eat all day... how do you double that protein?? 

Nutritionists assemble :)

E MuuD · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 160

Your dinner is light on protein.    

Also -> more eggs.

djkyote · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 0
Frazer wrote:

... how do you double that proten?

Trade your 200+g of carbs for steak

Matthew J · · Mostly St George, UT · Joined Jul 2022 · Points: 72
Frazer wrote:

I know I don't get enough protein in a day.  Post a given days intake here for examples folks could use to hit those targets.

Bad example unless your like 120 lbs below

  • Breakfast:
    • Protein shake (vega with greens), spinach, yoghurt non-fat plain, half banana, mixed berries w/kale, almond milk (Carb 56g, Protein 32g, Fat 6g)
  • Snacks between meals throughout day:
    • Slice whole wheat bread PBJ, sourdough pretzels, hummus and baby carrots, almonds (Carb 86g, Protein 24g, Fat 42g)
  • Lunch:
    • egg/cheese/spinach omelete on flour tortilla (Carb 24g, Protein 23g, Fat 21g)
  • Dinner: 
    • Chana masala with kale (Carb 57g, Protein 13g, Fat 8g)

So that gets this day to 91g protein and it feels like you eat all day... how do you double that protein?? 

Nutritionists assemble :)

How many calories was your list?  Looks like you're vegetarian as well?

My initial impression is you need more protein at dinner and fewer carbs in the snacks.  Bread, jelly, and pretzels are bad for this goal, and hummus is OK as a side to higher protein items, but not good enough as the main protein item.

Substitute higher protein items like tofu or vegan meat instead of the chickpeas at dinner.

Drop the tortilla at lunch in favor of another egg or two.  Add more protein somehow at breakfast instead of banana/berries.

Non-fat yoghurts can be higher in sugar to make up for lack of fat.  Take a look at that.

Tony S · · Minnesota · Joined Mar 2022 · Points: 373

1 cup cottage cheese with the snack +28 protein. Tofu with the dinner+25 protein. Whey protein before bed +25 protein. 

Eric Marx · · LI, NY · Joined Nov 2018 · Points: 67

THE MOMENT I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR

Cut all your plant-based protein intakes by an additional 40% since your average plant-protein is only 60% bioavailable(meaning the amount that hits your bloodstream, the rest is wasted as poop), with rare exceptions like tofu. Average animal protein is >90%.

Also, dig further and make sure the ratio of complete amino acids you're getting is as close as possible to the important ratio(animal proteins). Tofu is deficit in methione and cysteine, I've done the math previously and you need to eat a block about the size of a small toaster to equal the usable/complete protein content of 3 eggs. Somebody fact check me cause I'm too lazy. Obviously, nobody does that, so tofu is a lie. For the OP, I'd argue and estimate your usable/complete protein intake is less than 91g, and closer to somewhere around 40g for athletic-training purposes. 

OR ignore all that eating-disordered math and just eat animal products.

My average diet: 4-6 soft boiled pasture-raised eggs in the morning. Sometimes a couple small pieces of cheese or occasionally oatmeal. 7g an egg 95% bioavailable and complete in proper ratios. Pasture raised chickens eat bugs(animal protein) which makes the eggs about half as dense with saturated fat, and instead have around 150mg of DHA/EPA omega 3 per egg and richer in choline(makes eggs deep orange), which is essential for brain health.

Snack: 20g oikos pro yogurt(comes with added whey). Damn, it's 10am I got 50g and I feel like I barely ate anything at all.

lunch: Some form of grass-fed beef usually 90/10 ground, with a very small handful of rice and brussel sprouts/spinach or a barbacoa my wife makes. Low estimate of 40g. Grass-fed is important for the same reason pasture-raised eggs are; cows need a source of animal protein, which is bugs. Grass fed is leaner, contains omega 3, more creatine, and has about twice the general nutrient content of vegetarian/grain fed beef.

Dinner: Another form of grass-fed beef, usually filet mignon or sirloin. low estimate 40g, omega 3, creatine, heme iron, zinc, other relevant heavy metals, all the good stuff. With whatever my wife is making, sweet potatoes/brussels/broccoli/sometimes rice/or lentil pasta. 

Supplement with an additional 1.5g of DHA/EPA omega 3 and vitamin D every day and you're golden.

That estimate alone puts me at 130ish-g. I weigh 185 and aim for 145(.8). I drop this number when my training is less intense(.6-.7) Maybe some jerky or whatever other BS throughout the day and I'm good. No processed protein shakes(besides the small amount of whey in the yogurt), though I keep a bag of whey around for when I have a busier day and can't hit my base with real food. If I have a single protein shake in 3 weeks that's a lot.  

Let's build strength athletes here.

Long Ranger · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 669
Eric Marx wrote:

Let's build strength athletes here.

I can't afford beef  > 1x a week let along 14. 

Eric Marx · · LI, NY · Joined Nov 2018 · Points: 67
Long Ranger wrote:

I can't afford beef  > 1x a week let along 14. 

You probably can if you prioritize your health over coffee, pancakes and whiskey ;)

Eric Marx · · LI, NY · Joined Nov 2018 · Points: 67

JCM, I remember, thank you. I’m hoping to help people whether they like it or not haha. Hope you’re using grass-fed butter for those eggs.

Pork I limit, but I’m not sure why. I just don’t seem to like it as much. I wonder since it’s not a ruminant animal if the meat isn’t as nutritious but haven’t looked into it in any meaningful way. Chicken I eat a couple times a week but not as often because it’s lacking all the other important nutrition. I do set a high-priority on food, more important than any other spending in my life(other than supporting my family, and their diet is as important), and not drinking helps immensely with that.

Okay, I won’t hijack another thread with my pontificating. I’m out for the next few days.

Long Ranger · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 669
Eric Marx wrote:

You probably can if you prioritize your health over coffee, pancakes and whiskey ;)

Never!

JCM · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2008 · Points: 115
Eric Marx wrote:

JCM, I remember, thank you. I’m hoping to help people whether they like it or not haha. Hope you’re using grass-fed butter for those eggs.

I only use Kerrygold. Some things I won't compromise on.

Spopepro O. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 0

It's possible to do while veggie... but my math on it required eating and cooking to be my entire hobby. Building a eat-all-day type setup with a huge variety of legumes and nuts, essentially all carbs coming strictly from the legumes and still needing to supplement with whey protein (isolated... because otherwise the lactose would be way too much sugar). I still choose not to eat land animals, but fish is required, and still requires a supplement that others making different choices might not.

Today:

Breakfast: broiled mackerel, roasted green veggies, 2 eggs (~45g protein)

Lunch: glazed sardines, avocado, brown rice; roasted carrots, broccoli, braised bok choi; boiled egg (~35g protein)

Shake w/ 30g protein

Dinner: Bean and seitan stew (~45g protein)

Eric isn't wrong... but that's also a lot of calories, a ton of saturated fat, and probably lean on the fiber for my personal tastes. I think the reality is that there's no free lunch here, and probably no perfect way to build a diet, just choices to be made around what your priorities are. There are some surprises still out there if you're avoiding beef--like how sardines (with skin and bones) have double the collagen of slow cooked tough beef cuts (and waaay more than nice steaks), and shellfish (notably cockles, but also oysters and mussels) have double the iron of beef.

TJ Bindseil · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Apr 2020 · Points: 0

Alright I’ll jump in here.  If I’m home under normal circumstances I actually eat the same thing every day so this is a pretty good data point.

Breakfast: 4 eggs, two pieces of Dave’s killer whole wheat bread, a banana and maybe some berries if I’m feeling fancy.

Lunch: peanut butter sandwich on 2 pieces of Dave’s killer bread, apple sliced with peanut butter, protein shake 

Snack: banana, kettle cooked chips, some nuts (usually almonds), cheddar cheese slices

Dinner: half pound of 90/10 ground beef and a sweet potato with butter 

I can come back and add it up, but I like this and it works well.   The pb sandwich can be brought to the crag or replaced with bars to allow for an extended day out.  Or just run it out and eat lunch/snack/dinner all in a row when you get home.  

A last point, I’ve heard the amino acid profiles of wheat protein and legumes (ie peanuts) are complimentary, in that what one is lacking the other has in abundance and vice versa.  its an interesting way to get a complete protein as a vegetarian or vegan (if this is even true, I heard it from a friend a while ago)

TJ Bindseil · · Lakewood, CO · Joined Apr 2020 · Points: 0

I’ll add that I way about 180 lbs

Spopepro O. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 0
TJ Bindseil wrote:

A last point, I’ve heard the amino acid profiles of wheat protein and legumes (ie peanuts) are complimentary, in that what one is lacking the other has in abundance and vice versa.  its an interesting way to get a complete protein as a vegetarian or vegan (if this is even true, I heard it from a friend a while ago)

Rice. It’s why rice and beans successfully fuels a vast majority of the world. However I understand that it’s a somewhat moot point in the affluent world as our diets are pretty diverse. Only matters when all you have are dried staples and whatever you might be able to grow yourself if you’re lucky enough to have access to land and water. 

Eric Marx · · LI, NY · Joined Nov 2018 · Points: 67

Spope, you have a fairly solid diet, you should consider supplementing with creatine(just 2-3 grams a day) because the amount you produce endogenously is not anywhere near the amount you need and it's an absolutely essential nutrient. If you've been on your no-red-meat diet for an extended time you're probably in a severe deficit and will be a hyper-responder. I'd also be worried about metal deficiencies if you're eating primarily SMASH fish. Mainly zinc.

Saturated fat makes for great energy and you don't need much fiber if all the foods you're eating are >90% digestible. ;)

In terms of rice/beans, or other complementary sources of plant proteins, you need to account for the bioavailability/digestibility of the sources. Eating rice and beans might be a complete protein, but at the cost of a massive, massive carb load to get a usable amount of complete proteins. I mean like 1,000 calories of rice/beans might get you near the protein content of 2 eggs. A quick google search shows 461g(a massive amount) gets you 21g. Accounting for the digestibility, you're probably actually around 15g. Which is near-equivalent to two eggs. Difference being that 700 calories of rice and beans gets you the protein in 150 calories of 2 soft boiled eggs, and the ratio of amino acids still isn't quite right.

The other issue is that you lose out on all the other aforementioned nutrients, metals(zinc,magnesium,heme iron,selenium) b12, creatine, and EPA/DHA omega 3s, compared to the almost useless form of plant-based(walnuts/flax) ALA omega 3s.

Almonds and peanuts are particularly horrific sources of proteins/nutrition, as they're both below the mean of 60% for plants, at about 50%. When you think you're getting 10g of protein from your almond butter, nope, actually 5, in a jacked-up ratio. 200 calories of almonds gets you 8g of protein if you could digest it all. Net 4grams. Remember that the bioavailability also applies to all micronutrition, 20% of your DV of magnesium? No, actually 10%. Cut whatever you read on the label in half. Of course you need fiber to push all that waste through your system.

Meaning 200 calories of almond butter gets you 4g of incomplete proteins and half the reported micronutrition. Or 2 eggs, 150 cals, 95% bioavailable, loaded with nutrition.

I always find it interesting that people will crush their metabolism with fat peanut butter sandwiches or bean/seitan stews but find a palm-sized piece of steak, 400 calories, 12g saturated fat, 35g of protein, all metals, b12, creatine and omega 3s(if grass fed) just too unhealthy. That's nutrient-dense. Not saying any of that snarkily.

Tanner James · · Sierras · Joined Dec 2019 · Points: 950

I spend 6-8 weeks in the valley generally every spring and fall for the season. When the season is on and we’re pushing hard I eat 1-2lbs of ground beef every single night for dinner no matter what. Generally cook it in a pan with a lot of butter and eat it like cereal. No it’s not good and gets very old but it’s by far the best for me personally for recovery and I can tell a huge difference vs not doing it. You can find ground beef for $5 a pound easily if you buy a few at a time

Spopepro O. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2018 · Points: 0
Eric Marx wrote:

Spope, you have a fairly solid diet, you should consider supplementing with creatine(just 2-3 grams a day) because the amount you produce endogenously is not anywhere near the amount you need and it's an absolutely essential nutrient. 

So this is veering off into the personal… but I supplement 25g a day creatine. I started after reading literature about how multiple case studies showed high doses (20-30g) creatine reduced headaches in head trauma patients in hospitals. I’ve had migraines* since I was 7, have cut out foods/drinks, tried SSRIs, serotonin modulators, triptans… the high dose creatine has been the only thing that’s consistently made a difference.

My love for fiber goes beyond digestion alone. The data shows it’s effective in regulating almost everything and key to health and longevity. Which is why I think it’s about choices. There isn’t a reachable limit to how much fiber and protein is helpful, especially because those are often “packaged” with stuff that very much has limits when you’re eating real food (and real food is waaay better than isolates/supplements). So this isn’t as much an optimization problem as it is an engineering problem where you make priorities and sacrifices based on you. 


*more specifically my symptoms have always been a 50/50 split between classic migraine and cluster headaches, which has not helped me in our medical system that isn’t great for non cut and dry situations. 

Eric Marx · · LI, NY · Joined Nov 2018 · Points: 67
Spopepro O. wrote:

So this is veering off into the personal… but I supplement 25g a day creatine. I started after reading literature about how multiple case studies showed high doses (20-30g) creatine reduced headaches in head trauma patients in hospitals. I’ve had migraines* since I was 7, have cut out foods/drinks, tried SSRIs, serotonin modulators, triptans… the high dose creatine has been the only thing that’s consistently made a difference.

My love for fiber goes beyond digestion alone. The data shows it’s effective in regulating almost everything and key to health and longevity. Which is why I think it’s about choices. There isn’t a reachable limit to how much fiber and protein is helpful, especially because those are often “packaged” with stuff that very much has limits when you’re eating real food (and real food is waaay better than isolates/supplements). So this isn’t as much an optimization problem as it is an engineering problem where you make priorities and sacrifices based on you. 


*more specifically my symptoms have always been a 50/50 split between classic migraine and cluster headaches, which has not helped me in our medical system that isn’t great for non cut and dry situations. 

Wow, that's unbelievable. Glad you found a solution. If you don't mind me asking personal questions, how much did it reduce the severity/occurrence of the migraines? I'm also surprised that you do have a chronic medical condition and choose to opt out of the real foods that actually provide the healing benefits to you.

I'm not sure how fiber, which is simply undigestible waste, would cause long-term health benefits. Eating printer paper would be a form of soluble fiber. If the food you're eating is highly digestible, what do you need pushed out of your system besides other forms of undigestible waste? Genuinely asking.

Maxwell Hvolbek · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2020 · Points: 10

Fiber helps the bacteria in our gut, which seems to play a big role in our overall health. We evolved eating lotsa fiber. Would make sense that our bodies operate optimally continuing to eat it. 

rogerbenton · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 210

Breakfast is either:

- 4 eggs with broccoli and cheddar

- 4 eggs on avo toast

- oatmeal with coco oil, peanut butter, butter, and banana or avo


Lunch is either:

- 4 hard boiled eggs (on oatmeal days)

- one baked chicken breast

- smoothie with Greek yogurt, kion protein, banana, peanut butter, blueberries, milk, oats


Dinner is either:

- 1/2 lb ground beef in two burgers on Dave’s killer toast

- 1/2 lb ground turkey in lentils with spinach and peas 

- 1-1/2 chicken breasts with broccoli/peas/greenbeans/sweet potato/whatever veggies we have

- NY strip 

- 2-3 chicken thighs with veggies


Snack is usually:

- Parfait with Greek yogurt, peanut butter, grain free granola, banana or blueberries or 1/2 an avo

If I’m training for something specific I’ll probably double up on the steak and ground beef in place of oatmeal, yogurt parfaits, and smoothies.

My weight can swing between 168-174 in a month. Haven’t been outside that range (aside from cutting water weight for a comp) in years.

I used to eat bagels like it was my job. Now I’ll probably have 3 per year. But I feel it every time. The only bread I can really deal with is homemade and Dave’s Killer.

Biggest dietary vice right now is scones from coffee shops.
But that’s maybe 2-3x per month.

* Edit to add- supplementing kion aminos, magnesium, vit D, vit K, zinc, quercetin, turmeric, creatine (5g like 3x per week).

** Edit to add-  and collagen. A scoop in each cup of coffee, and a scoop in the smoothie.  

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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