Are rescue skills necessary?

Eric Craig wrote:

Anyone who has a reasonable understanding of knots, anchor building,  and belaying (without automatic devices, and with) can be taught the fundamental PRINCIPLES and techniques of improvised self rescue....

Learning this stuff from a book would be considerably more challenging than learning from  a good instructor. 

In short, YES. Rescue skills are important and unlike Avy Rescue skills, a large amount of recreational climbers don't know, or practice these skills enough. Lots of good responses to your question already. I'm a huge fan of these systems, but I won't get in the weeds.

To elaborate on Eric's simple post, in addition to proficiency in knots/hitches/anchoring, a major fundamental concept of improvised rescue in the concept of transferring a load. If you truly understand this concept and how to achieve this with various pieces of gear, you can achieve a lot.

Self-Rescue is a great thing to do if you get rained out and still want to go play on the rock.

I also plug Ian's new Self Rescue Book here.

James M wrote:

• Ideally you figure out a way to unload the rope, climb up a little and allow your belayer to move back down to a ledge or weight the anchor but understand their locking belay device might begin slipping once you unweight the system (so you better build yourself an anchor). Let's say you can't get them to unload, you could prussic the load strand to some gear, take the load off yourself.. but how would you rap the loaded strand?  

if you can prusik up a rope, you can prusik down one too...

there are more advanced methods to break into a loaded system , but those are beyond self rescue.

Self rescue skills weigh nothing, cost very little (or free), and do not add much bulk to your gear once dialed in. Maybe you will never NEED them, but why not have them stashed away for the unforeseen? They don't go bad over time, you cant accidentally drop them, and thankfully tweekers cant steal them!!! 

Eric Craig wrote:

That would make you an exceptional individual. Obviously, it can be done. 

People generally don't refer to me as an "exceptional individual".  So I am curious though where folks have spent time on it.  So, getting a little off from the OP's original inquiry ...

For folks with adequate self-rescue skills (subjective without definition), what percentage of your time was spent gaining that from

a) official instructor(s) including guides and / or recognized teachers of self-rescue in a club or organization.

b) book(s) including internet resources.

c) periodic practice sessions with climbing partners.

--

for me

a) 0% b) 25% c) 75%

Wictor Dahlström wrote:

I´m baffled that the answer is not obvious. And surprised that it is so common that people do not invest the time to learn rescue skills.

I'm similarly baffled that folks don't know how to work on their vehicles and don't even carry basic tools to do so, especially in the backcountry where there isn't anyone around to bail you out.

I was an ignorant climber for years that luckily enough never had to deal with any rescues, I know a few things now and carry a few more tools than I used to and still haven't had to do anything worse than hike a few miles in the dark over 30 years of climbing.  

Bill Lawry wrote:

People generally don't refer to me as an "exceptional individual".  So I am curious though where folks have spent time on it.  So, getting a little off from the OP's original inquiry ...

For folks with adequate self-rescue skills (subjective without definition), what percentage of your time was spent gaining that from

a) official instructor(s) including guides and / or recognized teachers of self-rescue in a club or organization.

b) book(s) including internet resources.

c) periodic practice sessions with climbing partners.

--

for me

a) 0% b) 25% c) 75%

Bill, 

When I was learning, I took "Rock Rescue 1" & Rock Rescue 2" (Maybe 2-3 years apart) from Marc Chauvin through the Appalachian Mountain Club at the Quincy Quarries.

I also read Dave Fasulo's book and would practice with my rock and ice partners, maybe once a season.

When You Tube gained in popularity, I watched some video and would practice at my house.

After that, I started focusing on things professionally and strengthened these skills through AMGA programs. There are many videos available, but here are a few that are open to the public.

So initially, it was:
a) official instructor(s) including guides and / or recognized teachers of self-rescue in a club or organization. 75%

b) book(s) including internet resources. 20%

c) periodic practice sessions with climbing partners. 5%

But 20 years later, it's more like:

a) 0%

b) 20%

c) 80%

I mainly alpine climb and I hold partners for bigger objectives to a high standard for their safety training and knowledge. I can find a decent amount of folks with WFR/ medical training, and AVY for winter objectives. Rope rescue skills someone is CONFIDENT in, not just has seen once, seems to be rare outside of the guiding community, but I think is essential. My main partner and I paid to hire a private IFMGA guide for a day to cover rope rescue specific to the scenarios we find ourselves in (ice) and found it invaluable. 

Seriously recommend hiring a guide over just taking a class. Class might be fine if you are comping in totally at square 0, but if you have any prior knowledge a guide is so much better. Costs more yea but you learn SO much more. I tried taking a few rope rescue courses at rock fests at and the differences of knowledge coming in (I already knew how to MMO and escape a belay, some people didn't know clove hitches) really took away from the day. 

Story: the same partner I did the training with & I were climbing in AK with a third buddy. We were rapping uncharted territory to get down as a storm rolled in. Third buddy rapped over a roof to the end of the rope in the middle of a massive blank slab. No where to anchor, no further to go, and he didn't have the gear to ascend on his harness. My buddy and I who had done rescue training were both at the anchor. We were able to unweight one rope, pass the knot, and lower him the rest of the way to the ground (fortunately we were within 120 meters), and then we rapped a different line to find a final anchor to the ground. To everyone saying "just get an in reach"- yes, but an in reach would be slow, inefficient, and overkill for the scenario we were in. THIS is what I think rope rescue is for- avoiding needing to call SAR. 

you sent someone to rap over a lip in a place you've never been and not knowing what's there while trying to outrun a storm and he had no way to ascend the rope? that's the mistake if i'm understanding the scenario correctly. but good that you had the skills to fix it!

the person who raps first is the descent leader so they should be equipped with some basic things to handle common issues like rapping past the anchor, needing to go sideways, needing to make an anchor if the one you expect isn't there, etc.

either way good job to be able to keep going safely. but here's another vote for investing most into a toolkit of common sense and concepts like transferring weight, and then combining the two to get out of a mess rather than learning a 5:1 haul from a book or whatever.

Short answer, yes. I'll echo everything Kevin said as well. I don't often have to use self-rescue skills with my "gumby clients" because I prepare well and choose objectives appropriate for my guests. My students who want to survive their alpine climbing experiences definitely practice self-rescue skills before venturing into consequential and risky terrain.

At the very least, you should know how to assess and construct bail/tat anchors if you're going into the alpine. I just got back from the Winds and we rapped on at least 20 improvised anchors. About half of those we had to construct ourselves. If you couldn't tell what was shit and was was solid, you could easily get yourself killed. Knowing how to back up anchors, test them, and build them without using half your rack is definitely required. 

Ascending is also a key skill. You will miss a rappel station at some point in your climbing career. Don't be the person I had to teach in-situ on Castleton because they thought their rope would reach the anchors and it didn't.

You probably don't need to know the flashy stuff people think of when it comes to self-rescue. I have never had to rescue an unconscious partner (leader or follower), rappel with an unconscious person, pass a knot while lowering (while that is a good skill), or do load transfers in order to go get help. I have had to rappel past a knot, jug a line, free many a stuck rope, make decisions about weather, rap on questionable anchors, read complex terrain, lower partners from above, and deal with ropes that were too short for rappels. The point is, practice the common stuff first, then get into the fancy stuff that makes you feel like a super hero when you can figure out a smooth solution. The larger your tool box, the better, but you should buy a screwdriver before a plasma cutter.

Yes, full stop. If you are an alpine climber, it's not a matter of "if" you will need to know how to get yourself out of a sticky situation, it's just "when".

Injuries can happen unexpectedly. Storms roll in that weren't in the forecast. Climbs and descents can take much longer than expected. Having a bag of tricks and working knowledge of rope work and basic rescue techniques can and will save you. I'm speaking from experience, it has been tremendously helpful for me a handful of times now including last weekend and I'm terrified knowing that so many people don't spend the time to learn this stuff.

I would recommend VDiff Climbing's self-rescue video course, it's very well done and easy to follow, much easier to follow compared to many books on the subject. Also, Andy Kirkpatrick's book, "Down" is another excellent resources. 

I gotta tell you, all you rescue-ready people are the exception, not the rule. There's a good, what, 50, 60, maybe 70 % of people ticking the "climber" activity box, self-rescue would only get them killed.

This thread made me go out and test my rope ascension skills last night without any refreshers.  I keep a climbing rope hung in my barn to practice rescue skills but I don't use it often enough.  Climbing spray walls and cracks is way more fun.  

I mimicked a scenario of rapping wIth a ATC on 2 strands past the anchor to the knots and being stuck in air with only normal climbing gear on my harness.  Roughly 20 minutes later and sweating like a whore in church, I prussicked my way  to the top  (20' total), made the transition and rapped back down to the floor. I need to practice more.  

Shane Davis wrote:

This thread made me go out and test my rope ascension skills last night without any refreshers.  I keep a climbing rope hung in my barn to practice rescue skills but I don't use it often enough.  Climbing spray walls and cracks is way more fun.  

I mimicked a scenario of rapping wIth a ATC on 2 strands past the anchor to the knots and being stuck in air with only normal climbing gear on my harness.  Roughly 20 minutes later and sweating like a whore in church, I prussicked my way  to the top  (20' total), made the transition and rapped back down to the floor. I need to practice more.  

Sweaty whore or not, you still got to the top! Thats whats important at the end of the day. Better to be rusty with the skills than to have never known them at all.

Eric Craig wrote:

Hi Bill, I see you are not a youngster, …

True. Not a youngster. However, technical rock climbing / traditional climbing wasn’t a thing for me until about 20 years ago. Many orders of magnitude of self-rescue information readily available then than 20 years before that. Perhaps my self-rescue learning mode is now more common than your’s?

Yeah, 40 years ago for me was light mountaineering - a little glacier travel and scant hip belays. Self-rescue training consisted of learning to ascend a rope. I did not learn any other crevasse rescue techniques, relying instead on the more experienced in the group and on sheer numbers of people - doing glacier travel in relatively large groups and maybe once a year. No internet. During that time was probably the steeper part of your learning curve?

SRENE started as RENE, and I am pretty sure RENE was one of Marc's contributions. At least Marc is where I first heard it. Or maybe it was Alan Jolley??????

Ha ha. Interesting.  Not familiar with those names. Still. Marc / Alan’s SRENE was useful for awhile for me 20 years ago. You probably know, there has also been EARNEST and others. Can get over-pedantic about those as I was early on. SSS was I think a Canadian attempt at a more “good enough” approach.

I definitely consider myself a very dorky person who has a very easy time learning these types of skills from a book or youtube videos. However, when it comes to this complicated leader rescue scenario on multi pitch transverses and all of that it gets to be a lot of things at once. I did a three day course when we performed everything and I think it was a very good experience. Not that I believe that rescuing an unconscious leader on a multi pitch with more than half the rope out on a significant traverse would work out successfully, but you still learn all the technical skills involved in that. It has been very helpful in less severe situations. Also some basic lead aid solo is a very good place to learn technical rope work, no matter if it is C1 that you back up with a top rope. A three day course is however a significant investment of time, especially for americans who do not get time off work. It would be hard to motivate spending 24 hours doing that when you hardly get any time to climb outside. Still, ascending a rope with the things you carry is an esentiall skill. Despite the courses I have taken, I do not normally carry any kind of traxions, jumars or that sort of things. I have a bunch of lockers, 2 120 cm slings, 1 180 or 240 cm sling and 3 prusiks. 

Wictor Dahlström wrote:

 Despite the courses I have taken, I do not normally carry any kind of traxions, jumars or that sort of things. I have a bunch of lockers, 2 120 cm slings, 1 180 or 240 cm sling and 3 prusiks. 

The CT Roll N Lock that I carry is a pulley and ascender. Weighs 80 gms = 2.8 oz. I really like having it with me. 

phylp phylp wrote:

The CT Roll N Lock that I carry is a pulley and ascender. Weighs 80 gms = 2.8 oz. I really like having it with me. 

II have one of those and also a Petzl Nano traxion. I would pick the nano if I had to haul someone, but that is still very difficult. I pretty much only carry the nano on glaciers, but will bring it on a planned multi pitch that is above my climbing ability, Having some kind of progress capture thing will of course be very good when you need it, but I have never needed it. I have however ascended ropes using prusiks several times. If it makes you feel good to carry it, it is a good thing. I don't climb anything where that weight is a significant factor.

Yes. Ideally, my partners for bigger objectives have wilderness first aid/responder/EMT training and know how to execute a pick off with tandem rappels. Without these skills, you’re just hoping to not ever be in a situation that requires them. Don’t let it all ride on hope and luck. 

For a given objective, I like to think of it as a balancing act.

On one side we have things somewhat outside our control:

- weather, route hazards (eg: rock fall, avalanches, other parties), challenges (eg: stuck rope, route finding), accidents

And the other side, things more in our control:

- route selection, fitness, training, experience / skills (eg: rescue, medical training), partner selection, gear, decision making, reading the forecast

If the two sides are not balanced for the challenges of an objective, then we are taking risk and banking on more factors outside of our control going right.

I volunteer in mountain rescue, and while the garmin inreach and other devices are fantastic, spinning up SAR resources can be slow and complex. It often takes many hours for SAR to arrive and you’re very very lucky if you get a helicopter rescue. Even if you do need a rescue, any self rescue / medical skills / emergency gear will make you more comfortable while you wait and reduce the severity of the issues you face.

I like this small “oh shit” kit article: https://www.alpinesavvy.com/premium-member-blog/the-oh-sht-kit

Also a good video on basic self rescue techniques: https://youtu.be/HQynCYcoqbc?si=hhphHRP47lhp70O1 (also an excellent channel)

I can't see why ignorance is ever a good policy.  Knowing stuff is always better than not knowing stuff.  I think Kevin Heinrich hit the nail on the head when he suggested that self-rescue skills can come into play in all kinds of situations that are not rescue scenarios.  Having a spectrum of techniques to respond to unanticipated situations is enormously better than having few if any alternatives.  And the people who think they are going to invent some of this stuff at the moment it is required are delusional.  So yes, you should learn self-rescue techniques because they not only enhance your chances of getting out of a serious situation, but also because they may help you with ordinary vicissitudes.

That said, I think self-rescuing has been oversold. Of course, if you are in a truly remote area, the ability to carry out a self-rescue becomes critical. The reality is that if it is possible to call in the professionals, it is almost always going to be a safer alternative, as there is a danger that self-rescue techniques, some of which have quite a bit of risk associated with them, could make matters a lot worse, with the rescuer an additional victim.

Here's my personal take.  You aren't going to get a seriously injured person up a climb or even up a full pitch.  Those hauling techniques won't work in many situations, will consume an enormous amount of time, and possibly drive the rescuer to exhaustion. Ok, maybe you're eighty feet from the top and 2,000 feet from the start, hauling, if it turns out to be possible, could be best.  But in general, if up is the only way out and the injured person can't climb with continual rope tension from above, then the best option is rope-soloing out and going for help, and so basic rope soloing should be part of the self-rescue inventory. (Note:  hauling techniques do work for crevasse rescue, but a glacial rescue situation is totally different from what confronts a belayer on a one-foot ledge.) 

If, on the other hand, retreat is a viable alternative, then it is usually going to be the best option.  For this, the rescuer has to be familiar with the tandem rappel (not simul-rapping!), in which both climbers are attached to a single rappel device.  Depending on how much help the injured person can offer, the issue of getting them properly anchored so that the ropes can be pulled and then back on the tandem rappel will require various self-rescue techniques and probably some inspired innovation.  The rescuer may have to go back up the ropes, so for this and a multitude of other reasons the ability to ascend a fixed line is absolutely fundamental.