"Alpine" routes

What does Mountain Project classify as "Alpine".  I was looking at some different climbing areas in Brian Head Utah and saw "Alpine" and didn't know what that meant. 

It’s pretty loose around here. It could be cragging above tree line. 

Alpine: areas above 10,000 feet

Alpine Style-like Climbing: might have snow/ice, westher concerns, loose rock, and summiting a mountain.  Inherent risk are much higher.

Eric Craig wrote:

I don't mean anything personal, but the 10,000 foot thing kinda works for California,  not so much for Washington state. There are plenty of Cascades peaks under 9,000 feet that are unquestionably more alpine than any Sierra mountain. 

That is the interesting part...  if you consider anything about a treeline then it is "alpine".  In Alaska, the tree line is much lower than in places closer to the equator.

And then this begs the question:

When Climbers talk about Alpine, do they mean the Environment of the Climbing Style?
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FWIW, I usually say its an "easy-alpine" or "alpine-like" for routes in the high sierras without snow. If I'm bringing some basic snow/ice travel stuff, I say its easy-alpine. If I'm in the High Sierras and placing Ice Screws... the I call it Alpine Climbing.

But I'm a Gumby...

This is one of those things that has always seemed like everyone has their own definition.

I’ve always considered it to mean taking a technical route up to or near a summit of sorts in a mountain environment. 

Eric Craig wrote:

Just curious, but what skills do you think an "alpinist" should have?

"The ability to suffer and a short memory."

Eric Craig wrote:

Just curious, but what skills do you think an "alpinist" should have?

I think that's a good question and discussion. The nature of mountain routes being more varied, with higher objective dangers, an "alpinist" likely ought to have a much broader skillset than a rock climber. 

Hazard assessment, terrain belays/protection, simul climbing, broad experience with varied rock techniques (face, crack, chimney, slab, etc), different belay methods and where to used them for expediency, and obviously a mastery of traditional protection techniques with passive and active gear. Those are some basics and that's just for "alpine rock climbing." 

FrankPS wrote:

"The ability to suffer and a short memory."

So giving birth is an alpine activity?

Alpinists are generalists. They might not be the best rock climber, ice climber, or aid climber, but they know how to do all of those things sufficiently given their objective. Of course, some routes will require an alpinist to be at least very good at all of those things. 

I also like the ability to suffer and a short memory thing, definitely some truth to that. 

Eric Craig wrote:

The whole "simul climbing" thing is controversial, although less so now than in days gone by. But it should be as controversial as ever. 

Personally I see it as a "technique " used to make up for lack of other fundamental skills. Same as the use of "prerigged rappels" in guiding. 

Long ropes, simul climbing,  short fixing as used today are techniques developed by the elite rock athletes to increase their speed on wall routes. And they work,  most of the time, in this application for the elite and say near elite. I am pretty sure these techniques/strategies are not working out so well for more average performers. I make this claim based on trip reports here on MP and elsewhere compared to my own personal experience on the same climbs.  I  have also personally witnessed very good climbers make rather slow ascents of pretty average climbs while using these methods. 

Particularly on easier climbs,  like Royal Arches or The Matthes Crest Traverse,  doing the opposite, i.e. using a shorter rope would promote better efficiency for more people. I know for a fact that a 30 meter rope works out great for climbing Royal Arches. Maybe not so good for the rap route.  For people who find North Dome Gully a challenging descent, they should chose it and other similar descents over rappelling every time,  because what they learn will reap big rewards when venturing into the "alpine". 

Yeah I know...... blasphemy.......

I don't disagree with you, but I think there's a difference in how I used the word. I kind intended it's use in place of the term "running belay" for more 4th class terrain where all teammates are solid and it's more a matter of connecting the more technical sections. It can be debated, for sure, if it's worth coiling the rope or just running it with the occasional point of protection. 

The real gist of what I was getting at though is that someone who is going "alpine climbing" should have spent some time learning and understanding the differences in these techniques to weigh them against the terrain they are on and make an educated decision. 

And I agree with you, I'm a really big fan of short ropes in a lot of alpine climbing terrain. 

It's the magnitude of the approach and the descent.