Quad anchor for sport climbing

Hi all, 

I need a top rope anchors for sport climbing that would be relatively easy to setup and safe, and redundant. 

I thought about using two quickdraws with locking carabiners but wouldn't it be bad distribution of the weight when the bolts are staggered?

So instead I have decided to create a quad anchor from 180cm dyneema with figure8 knots. Here I am using locking carabiners for both the anchor and masterpoint:

And I wonder whether this variant with the triact locking oval carabiner would be better:

Also how do you store the anchor on the harness? I have tried this but it seems bulky:

This is overkill for most sport climbing anchors. 2 Locking draws is generally fine. Yes it does have some problems when the bolts are staggered. Usually if the bolts are staggered, one has a chain on it with a rap ring. Just clip into one of the chain links (or even the rap ring) on that side to bring them even. Yes it would be more ideal to clip directly into the bolt, and it is fine.

That said, if you are going to do a quad, clip 2 lockers but clip them both to the same 3 strands.

As far as racking it, clip the 2 carabiners on the ends together and throw it over your shoulder.

Just go back to using draws. With a locker or lockers if you want. Super good enough even if the bolts are not level.

oh and you don't need figure 8 knots, you can get away with just overhands - that is what you will typically see although there is nothing wrong with figure 8s.

"I need a top rope anchors for sport climbing that would be relatively easy to setup and safe, and redundant. 

I thought about using two quickdraws with locking carabiners but wouldn't it be bad distribution of the weight when the bolts are staggered?"

Two regular quickdraws should be fine, even if the bolts are staggered. If that makes you nervous you can put two locking biners on one of the draws instead of regular biners.

I like the variant less than the regular quad; if the one unclipped strand breaks for some reason the anchor loses redundancy, whereas the  first pic you would need both unclipped strands to break for it to lose redundancy.

"Also how do you store the anchor on the harness? I have tried this but it seems bulky: "

My preferred method to rack it on a harness would be to hold the two orange biners, spin one of them around your finger to put a bunch of twists into the quad, clip one orange biner to the other and clip that onto your harness. This should make the quad bunch up into a tight strand/clump.

Mork M wrote:

Two regular quickdraws should be fine, even if the bolts are staggered. If that makes you nervous you can put two locking biners on one of the draws instead of regular biners

I am ok with two regular quickdraws if everyone would be leading the route ...However, I have seen the gate of a biner opening while I was lowered and it makes me nervous to have non-blocking biners as the top rope anchor....Also just the one with locking carabiners will make me nervous. Wouldn't it be better to have two quickdraws each with locking carabiners on both sides?

Which would be better - screw lock or triact?

Almost everyone uses two normal quickdraws. If you want to be extra safe you could use one normal and one 2-locker quickdraw. If you have two lockers itll suck for the next guy leading it.

With one normal carabiner they can clip that while pumped then unscrew the locker and clip other

I’ve been a fan of the double with the girth hitch lately. To each their own as far as safety goes. Your set up is great and one people use all the time. Plus it can be equalized. Don’t over think it.

In recorded history, there is no instance of two opposite and opposed QuickDraws as the point of failure for a top rope anchor.

If a locker on the rope ends makes ya feel better, go for it; but I’d wager that it opens up more objective hazard if a pumped out leader has to unscrew the draws to clip the anchor.

Worry is much better spent examining the condition of the bolts or your rope or belay loop

Lily S wrote:

Hi all, 

I need a top rope anchors for sport climbing that would be relatively easy to setup and safe, and redundant. 

I thought about using two quickdraws with locking carabiners but wouldn't it be bad distribution of the weight when the bolts are staggered?

It doesn't matter. We're talking about top rope falls and lowering - the forces are minuscule.

2 opposed quickdraws. 

UNLESS you are ICI certified (Instagram Climbing Influencer). Then you need to come up with some crazy shit for views. 

Stagg54 Taggart wrote:

oh and you don't need figure 8 knots, you can get away with just overhands - that is what you will typically see although there is nothing wrong with figure 8s.

I find F8s easier to untie with thin Dyneema

Lily S wrote:

I am ok with two regular quickdraws if everyone would be leading the route ...However, I have seen the gate of a biner opening while I was lowered and it makes me nervous to have non-blocking biners as the top rope anchor....Also just the one with locking carabiners will make me nervous. Wouldn't it be better to have two quickdraws each with locking carabiners on both sides?

Which would be better - screw lock or triact?

In my opinion you're overthinking it. Either would be okay, most probably including the regular quickdraws. But if you insist why not go for one draw with tri action and one with screw gate?

180cm quads (aka mini quads) are awesome. I use two of them on multipitch climbs with bolted anchors but they are a good option for top-roping single pitch climbs too. 

Advantages: 

• Fast
• Very strong
• Easy to setup/breakdown 
• Can equalize to the direction of pull
• Can be taken apart to make a different style of anchor
• Offer a lot of mobility at anchors

You can use two quickdraws on some climbs but that isn't always ideal for the direction of pull and/or length and placement of the anchor. For example, some bolts are far apart or may be vertically offset. 

It is often nice to place your masterpoint over a lip to reduce abrasion on the rope. To that end, you can take apart a quad and tie a traditional masterpoint to gain some length and/or place the masterpoint exactly where you need it. 

For racking take the masterpoint carabiners off, clip them to one of the boltside carabiners. Grab both of the boltside carabiners, pull them apart until the sling stops you, twist them in opposite directions for 4-8 turns. Finally, clip the boltside carabiners together. You should now have a fairly neat twisted sling. Clip the less full boltside carabiner to your harness. This is much less bulky than what you did in your photo. 

Lockers are optional on the bolts. 

I recommend getting some Edelrid bulletproof carabiners to use in your masterpoint. They have steel inserts and they wear much more slowly than aluminum carabiners and keep your rope cleaner. 

I always use two of the exact same size carabiners in my masterpoint for top roping. Since they are opposite and opposed they don't have to be lockers (I use one locker and one bent gate Edelrid bulletproof) This gives the rope a nice large radius to run over. In my opinion the larger radius makes ropes last longer. 

I have taken to bringing two alpine draws for sport anchors. They give flexibility if the bolts are offset, and adjustable length so I can mitigate any weird carabiner loading scenarios and always get the rope side carabiners below any lowering hardware so the last climber can just clip/thread, test-weight the fixed hardware, and lower. Throw lockers on the rope side if you want the extra margin for a top rope scenario 

There's no one size fits all solution. I'll use different anchor configurations for different scenarios. Deciding factors include number of climbers who are going to be using the anchor; are we talking all top rope, or are folks going to want to lead the route also?; 2 side by side bolts vs vertically offset bolts with a rap ring; rock features that create cause for concern re: abrasion, sharp edges, etc.; direction of travel of the route, and whether it wanders/traverses, or is pretty straight; probably other things too. 

All of those things lead to a decision if I'm just hanging draws, whether I'm using lockers at the bolt side, whether I'm using lockers at the rope side, whether I'm using something self-equalizing like a quad or just doing a simple masterpoint, and so on.

Sounds like OP may be new or new-ish to this, and so it's good that she seems to have a strong orientation toward safety. The quad is a great place to start, but it would be wise to learn different configurations, using different materials, different lenght slings, etc. Through experimentation and repetition, you'll figure out your own risk tolerance, safety margin, preferences for materials, and so on, and have a good little toolset of options for adapting to different scenarios.

grug g wrote:

2 opposed quickdraws. 

UNLESS you are ICI certified (Instagram Climbing Influencer). Then you need to come up with some crazy shit for views. 

I need this cert.

Jordan Rogers wrote:

I have taken to bringing two alpine draws for sport anchors. They give flexibility if the bolts are offset, and adjustable length so I can mitigate any weird carabiner loading scenarios and always get the rope side carabiners below any lowering hardware so the last climber can just clip/thread, test-weight the fixed hardware, and lower. 

Ha-ha, I also started to do this beginning late last season.  It is a good way to go.

CF Burnstein wrote:

I need this cert.

I can make that happen. It’s a bit pricey, but it comes with a printed, embossed certificate and watermark you can include in your socials. Now, whenever you make a video, you can say AMGA  Certified guide, and add +20 to your reputation score.

All those options will work.

Learn them, try them, and use them, then decide.  Do the same with a dozen or so more anchor configurations.  Everyone has their favorites.

Flat 8's roll easier than overhands(why we don't join ropes with them to rap) and use more rope(sometimes helpful).

A carabiner in the loop should block the knots from rolling off the end.

I personally like nylon slings for anchors because they hold knots a little better and can be easier to untie.  Metolius slings are nice and soft, and DMM/Trango/Mammut slings are stiffer in my experience which sometimes helps with untying loaded knots.

Two and two strands on a quad is helpful on multipitch because you and your partner can move without jostling each other as much.

YMMV, find what works for you.

I like a quad for versatility, and lockers for the rope side as I’ve seen weird situations where one side has come unclipped. On your first example quad, it looks like the rope end lockers are not opposite and opposed. I personally use two lockers on the rope side, but have toproped off a single locker. Probably wouldn’t recommend since the weight of a single carabiner is worth the redundancy and peace of mind.