Vehicle capabilities on forest roads

I am considering buying a new (to me) car. I'd like to get something with good gas mileage - ideally 40+ mpg - and the ability to get down some forest roads around the Sierra. My general sense is that high clearance is a must for what I would like to do, and that AWD is *possibly* a must, but I'm not sure about this.

I made it to/from Lost World once in my Honda Civic - I wouldn't do that again without a high clearance vehicle, but clearly AWD wasn't necessary. I'm wondering about places like Shuteye Ridge. Is AWD needed? Or how about, for reference, getting back to Clark Canyon or Al's Garage off the 395? Or to Sagehen Summit? Basically I'm having trouble figuring out whether I can get by with a high clearance FWD vehicle or whether that's not going to cut it for many places around California. Obviously there's a point where AWD is required - but how much can you get to without it?

Any thoughts/experiences/considerations would be helpful.

I think that there may be an analog to Parkinson's Law that could be worth considering in your situation. By way of examples: one night many years ago my truck lost its inclination to complete the approach to the Shepherd Pass trailhead, coming to rest in what seemed to me to be an exceptionally inconvenient spot on the road. Peakbaggers coming down in the morning in their rental cars took it all in stride. Three years ago, now in possession of a 4WD Tacoma, I decided that it was now permissible to make an attempt on the upper Buttermilks road and, following that, on the east arete of Mt. Humphreys. Both successful in the end, but the wheeled part of the journey got filed under "supposedly fun things I'll never do again." So the law might read, "driving skills contract to accommodate expanding vehicle features."

So, the consideration should go beyond whether you can make it. Almost always you can. People have made it out to places like Enchanted Tower and even Homestead in low-clearance, 2WD vehicles. However, this almost always involves harnessing momentum and lots of wheel spin, which fucks up the road for everyone else, especially in cases like the above, where the road is not maintained. 

don't have any personal experience, but i've looked into the rav4 prime before.  downside is price...

If you want 40+ mpg your options are very limited, asking for clearance reduces it even more. Subaru has a few (2?) hybrid options, the RAV4, and supposedly the 2025 Ford Maverick hybrid will have AWD as an option. A few other companies make hybrid SUVs but I don't think they are as attractive for various reasons.

M A wrote:

If you want 40+ mpg your options are very limited, asking for clearance reduces it even more. Subaru has a few (2?) hybrid options, the RAV4, and supposedly the 2025 Ford Maverick hybrid will have AWD as an option. A few other companies make hybrid SUVs but I don't think they are as attractive for various reasons.

We have a RAV4 Hybrid. The clearance is good (8.3”), the AWD is okay (no low range and a CVT handicap it), and we have averaged about 41 mpg since we bought it (13K miles). The biggest problem is that it has no skid plates and has low profile tires, which can make things interesting on rocky terrain. You can get a RAV4 with skid plates, but not in a hybrid. 

"Get down some forest roads" - once, or like, as a repeatable thing?

My opinion is if you're going to be plying the back forest roads you need something that can handle a little unexpected action, like rain. A 2wd struggling down to Lost World trailhead might not make it back up the hill in the rain, by way of example.

I'm on forest roads a lot, almost every weekend. I have a high clearance 4wd as a result. I'm not into "4 wheelin" but I'm not into getting stuck or ripping out my undercarriage either. I drove a Rav4 for years until I gave it to my daughter, AWD handy and improves handling on dirt roads but clearance is low. I got it up and down some rougher roads by crawling along super slow (agonizingly slow).

I'm sure this post isn't helping you, but a dose of forest service road reality might.

Longer beds bottom out and 4wd really takes a toll on your vehicles longevity. Get a crappy beater. Or better yet, have your friend drive their car instead 

I've seen sedans at Clark Cyn parking a few times, but that approach only has like 100' of possibly more difficult terrain, depending on the year.

For some inspiration, head to Mexico.  I regularly ride my dual-sport moto on really rough roads for a long time there, thinking "wow, this is pretty rugged", only to encounter Mexicans that have made it in a '94 Civic or some shit.  Going slowly, not caring about your bodywork, and maybe carrying a shovel can get you places.

If you find the unicorn AWD vehicle that gets 40mpg and has high clearance (and doesn't cost $100k like a Rivian), let us know so we can all rush out and buy one.

evan freeman wrote:

I've seen sedans at Clark Cyn parking a few times, but that approach only has like 100' of possibly more difficult terrain, depending on the year.

For some inspiration, head to Mexico.  I regularly ride my dual-sport moto on really rough roads for a long time there, thinking "wow, this is pretty rugged", only to encounter Mexicans that have made it in a '94 Civic or some shit.  Going slowly, not caring about your bodywork, and maybe carrying a shovel can get you places.

If you find the unicorn AWD vehicle that gets 40mpg and has high clearance (and doesn't cost $100k like a Rivian), let us know so we can all rush out and buy one.

Our RAV4 ran $39K. Outside of the limitations I described above, it is a perfectly fine “soft-roader ,” and it does get 40+ mpg. For truly miserable terrain we take the Tacoma. 

Frank Stein wrote:

Our RAV4 ran $39K. Outside of the limitations I described above, it is a perfectly fine “soft-roader ,” and it does get 40+ mpg. For truly miserable terrain we take the Tacoma. 

Wow, you got a Rav 4 hybrid and a Tacoma. Living the dream. 

Dang, you got shocks... Pegs... Lucky! 

I can speak for Shuteye. You would need an AWD vehicle with at least 8" of clearance. 40 mpg is a pipe dream. A sedan/hatchback/FWD won't survive many trips back there.  For me something like an Outback has been a good compromise on rough road capability/fuel economy. I would suggest an older vehicle, then you won't be scared to push the boundaries somewhat on something you didn't spend 40K on. I'm curious why you think you need 40 mpg? An older cheaper car with 30 MPG will most likley be cheaper in the long run than something new with super high fuel economy.

Cory B wrote:

 An older cheaper car with 30 MPG will most likley be cheaper in the long run than something new with super high fuel economy.

This is the math I'm always doing.  My Honda Element gets like 25mpg, but the $34,000 that I saved vs buying a new RAV4 hybrid will sure buy a lot of fuel!  Certainly all new cars should get great mileage, and the plethora of shit ones that don't should be banned, but scrapping all of the old cars before their useful end of life is foolish as well.

Whatever you get, make sure to drive it to Phantom Spires or Clark Canyon to get some solid Sierra pinstriping early on.  Then you won't be too precious about it anymore.

Get whatever is cheapest and gets great gas mileage.

Then get a small trailer and one or two tiny motorcycles like a 70’s model Honda Trail 90.

Between the weight of the trailer and bikes, you’ll be under 1500lbs, meaning that almost every car on the road can tow it.

Park when the road gets rough and enjoy 60mpg in low range or 100mpg in high range on the way to the crag. Be sure to lock your trailer, they’re easy to steal.

How about a custom touareg TDI? Pretty solid comfy stylish rig with good AWD and 35+ mpg. Tune, lift, rock and roll. Might take some hunting for a finer specimen, but they’re out there around 10-15k now.

We recently bought a new Maverick hybrid and I love it so far. It's abilities on dirt roads exceed my willingness to beat it up already. 

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote:

Get whatever is cheapest and gets great gas mileage.

Then get a small trailer and one or two tiny motorcycles like a 70’s model Honda Trail 90.

Between the weight of the trailer and bikes, you’ll be under 1500lbs, meaning that almost every car on the road can tow it.

Park when the road gets rough and enjoy 60mpg in low range or 100mpg in high range on the way to the crag. Be sure to lock your trailer, they’re easy to steal.

FWIW I often ride my moto to go climb.  It's a 500cc street one, but gets 65mpg at 70mph with gear (or a bicycle) on it.

I also built a trailer to carry my dual-sport moto behind the Element.  The trailer weighs 140#, and the moto is about 400# with fuel.  I could barely tell it was there on a recent 3000 mi round trip.  This would be a great option for OP!  One could get something like a Honda CRF230 dirtbike and absolutely rip on worse roads than most would take their Tacos on.

Keel Elan wrote:

It would be pretty embarrassing to be one of those people driving around the Bay Area in a completely unblemished Jeep. ;)

what's really embarrassing is the jeeps, tacomas, etc. driving around the eastside with winch, snorkel, traction boards, gas cans, shovel - AND - an 'immaculate' paint job!!! ;-)

old5ten wrote:

what's really embarrassing is the jeeps, tacomas, etc. driving around the eastside with winch, snorkel, traction boards, gas cans, shovel - AND - an 'immaculate' paint job!!! ;-)

We have a whole thread dedicated to making fun of those idiots on TGR.  It's hilarious.   tetongravity.com/forums/sho…

The Subaru mileage isn’t the best, but imo it’s what you want if you don’t want a truck or jeep. Having driven a van a lot in the last year, moderately high clearance with fwd will tackle many roads deemed “too rough” by mountain project, but haven’t tested on anything explicitly 4x4. Rock gardens and soft stuff not ideal. It sounds like it may be out of your budget, but any plugin ev hybrid like the rav4 or the 4xe jeep is really nice for around town to offset poor mileage on the weekends. I don’t think the used market is really there yet for suv/crossovers with good mpg so you’ll probably have to compromise, but I’m not really sure the new market is either.

I went through this same search when I bought a car in 2022. The Rav4 Prime really checks all the boxes but it's absurdly expensive now that the federal and state incentives have been phased out, and back then it was not possible to buy one without 6-10k dealer markup. You will never make back the purchase price difference via fuel savings.

An Outback is 95% of what you're looking for. I have averaged 31 mpg over the past 2000 miles and it can easily get to the good parking at the Grotto, phantom spires, Bowman Lake, etc.