Up & Over Pack

I know on-route packs have gotten a good amount of discussion over the years, but curious what people have liked as an up and over pack for long alpine days.

Long story short, I'm looking for a mid-sized pack that can serve as a guide pack (need to carry first aid kit, water, layer, etc.) but can also double as a long alpine trad pack.

I'd love to be able to fit ~ first aid kit, water, double rack, shoes, harness, and snacks in the pack for the hike, plus helmet and rope carry on the exterior, but not have it be so big that it's floppy and baggy while climbing.

I've been mostly focused on tube packs for low weight, strippability, versatility, and climbing ability.

The few at the top of my list are:

• Black Diamond Speed 30 - looked at this in the store today. Meets a lot of my criteria, but it does seem quite large. Even sans brain, it was quite big. It would be quite empty while climbing. I do like that it has a true waist belt. There's also a tall collar under the brain, so you can really stuff it full. Not sure how they're measuing the 30L, but I think you can get way more in there.

• Ortovox Trad Zero 24 - I think this is my top choice for now. No brain, great flap for covering the opening. I have a few friends with other Ortovox packs and they love them. A smaller size, so it would be a squeeze with all my stuff, but be better while climbing. No true waist belt, but more durable fabric than the BD.

• Deuter Guide 24 - Seems like a decently tall collar to help with overstuffing, but still small enough when empty to not be super obtrusive while climbing. Least excited about this one, with the shoulder strap pocket, and no true waist belt.

I've looked at other options (Blue Ice Warthog 30, Blue Ice Chiru 25, Osprey Mutant) but none have seemed any better than the Speed 30 or Trad Zero 24. Is there anything else out there I should take a look at?

Arc'teryx fl30 climbs very nicely. No faff.

Cilogear 30 MOB. It does a great job expanding / contracting as needed, is light and comfortable. Cons: expensive and only occasionally available. 

Big fan of the BD Speed packs.  Lots of features, lightweight & you can find them fairly often for 25% off retail 

24 liters is probably small for what you're trying to carry, I'd shoot for something in the 30-40 range. 

Just to throw another in the mix, the Mountain Equipment Tupilak is one of the best packs I've put on. Flattens down to nothing when climbing, burly and light, with an expandable interior collar both for separating dry from wet and for increasing capacity when needed. Really a smart bag.

Deuter Guide 24 owner. Don’t know what went through the designers minds with the sewn bottle holder… Anyway, overall I really like the pack and I also had very good experience with Deuters customer service before which helped my decision.

Fitting what you mentioned, especially the double rack, into the pack is going to be a challenge in my opinion. The collar extends nicely, but I don’t have an exact number. I would not want a bigger pack for multipitch climbs, climbed with a 35l pack before and found it very cumbersome.

I do have two light buckle straps (from Sea To Summit maybe) in the side pocket to compress the pack if needed.

Hope that helps

Isaac Mann-Silverman wrote:

24 liters is probably small for what you're trying to carry, I'd shoot for something in the 30-40 range. 

Just to throw another in the mix, the Mountain Equipment Tupilak is one of the best packs I've put on. Flattens down to nothing when climbing, burly and light, with an expandable interior collar both for separating dry from wet and for increasing capacity when needed. Really a smart bag.

Yeah, my thought as well. That's what really drew me to the Speed 30. But playing around with it, it feels just as big as my current 45L! The Tupilak looks intriguing! Though no pro deal and the only place their site says it's available is REI and REI is showing no results.

Koy wrote:

Big fan of the BD Speed packs.  Lots of features, lightweight & you can find them fairly often for 25% off retail 

Do you have the 30? How does it climb when fairly empty? I felt like I was still hitting my head when I tried it on.

Quick edit: I may just get the S/M size (28L) in hopes that it's just a bit smaller, even though I'd "fit" the M/L size.

When the pack is fairly empty you can tuck the top lid down into the pack body (or remove it all together) & it’s totally out of the way.   Wouldn’t recommend sizing down.

I've got the BD Blitz 28 and I'm a fan. I used it on the N Ridge of Stuart with a bivvy on the summit and it was the perfect size.

Koy wrote:

When the pack is fairly empty you can tuck the top lid down into the pack body (or remove it all together) & it’s totally out of the way.   Wouldn’t recommend sizing down.

Yeah, I saw that. I really like the flap/ rope carry combo and would probably keep the brain off most of the time. It just seemed so cavernous in the pack. 

Hi all,

Just wanted to update this for posterity. I ended up ordering the Ortovox Trad Zero 24 just to see. I haven't taken it outside, but I did just stuff it full and it fits everything I had hoped.

Picture of it mostly stuffed (with a bit of care in how I pack, could probably get a bit more)

And a pic of everything that was inside including: Double rack, guide kit (mostly slings, two cordalettes, bunch of lockers, GriGri, ATC, gloves, PAS, micro traxion), first aid kit including wag bag, InReach, headlamp and tourniquet, 1L Nalgene, harness, and shoes. Helmet goes on the front, and rope goes on the top. 

All buckles are metal, which is sweet. Shoulder straps feel pretty good, with an obvious trade off for lighter vs more padding, and the waist belt, same thing. Though the waist belt does have a small patch of material on the buckle to protect your body where it hits and seems to help disperse weight just a bit.

Overall, pretty pleased. Material seems robust. Remains to be seen how comfy it is for longer distance hikes, but I anticipate it climbs well when mostly empty. 

Chris Johnson wrote:

Hi all,

Just wanted to update this for posterity. I ended up ordering the Ortovox Trad Zero 24 just to see. I haven't taken it outside, but I did just stuff it full and it fits everything I had hoped.

Picture of it mostly stuffed (with a bit of care in how I pack, could probably get a bit more)

And a pic of everything that was inside including: Double rack, guide kit (mostly slings, two cordalettes, bunch of lockers, GriGri, ATC, gloves, PAS, micro traxion), first aid kit including wag bag, InReach, headlamp and tourniquet, 1L Nalgene, harness, and shoes. Helmet goes on the front, and rope goes on the top. 

All buckles are metal, which is sweet. Shoulder straps feel pretty good, with an obvious trade off for lighter vs more padding, and the waist belt, same thing. Though the waist belt does have a small patch of material on the buckle to protect your body where it hits and seems to help disperse weight just a bit.

Overall, pretty pleased. Material seems robust. Remains to be seen how comfy it is for longer distance hikes, but I anticipate it climbs well when mostly empty. 

Hey Chris,

Curious to know if you took it out yet and what's your thoughts. Does your head hit the pack when looking up while climbing? 
 

Charlie Bourque wrote:

Hey Chris,

Curious to know if you took it out yet and what's your thoughts. Does your head hit the pack when looking up while climbing?
 

Hey Charlie,

I haven't taken it out yet. I'll get out tomorrow for a simul climbing adventure and see how it goes. I anticipate it will not hit my head while climbing given it won't be stuffed anywhere close to full. Will report back.

Chris Johnson wrote:

Long story short, I'm looking for a mid-sized pack that can serve as a guide pack (need to carry first aid kit, water, layer, etc.) but can also double as a long alpine trad pack.

What is a "guide pack" and how is it different from a normal or non-guide pack?

FrankPS wrote:

What is a "guide pack" and how is it different from a normal or non-guide pack?

We know you already know this FrankPS, but to indulge; it's a pack that holds your gear for the day, and a like half of the client's gear for the day.  So larger than a typical multipitch climbing day pack but smaller than a shipping container.  

Often smelling of swagger and ruptured blue bags.

Or maybe OP means a group of 3 or more guides?

Or a Jansport bookbag for carrying guidebooks?

You know what, I take it back, this is a good question FrankPS.

Andy Shoemaker wrote:

We know you already know this FrankPS, but to indulge; it's a pack that holds your gear for the day, and a like half of the client's gear for the day.  So larger than a typical multipitch climbing day pack but smaller than a shipping container.  

Often smelling of swagger and ruptured blue bags.

Or maybe OP means a group of 3 or more guides?

Or a Jansport bookbag for carrying guidebooks?

You know what, I take it back, this is a good question FrankPS.

This reply resulted in an audible chuckle, snort and chortle from me. Thanks, Andy!

I have the Ortovox Trad Zero 24 too, just took it for a first climb last weekend and I absolutely love that pack. Doesn't get in the way when I have to tilt my head back to look up. Doesn't hand low to where it sits on top of the back of my harness. 

I fit a 3L water bladder, 1L hydrapak, pair of TX4s, plus snacks during the climb and it carried it well. On the descent I threw almost all of my triple rack in the pack, TC Pros in the pack instead of TX4s, and it was full to the brim but was able to hold it all. Highly recommend, it's awesome

I just want to plug in some other really good options:

Deuter vertrail 16: Vest like straps, full drybag construction. rope+tool+helmet carry. Nice but a bit niche. Use it for fast/light easier rock/alpine routes with maybe running/cycling approach. Very nice pack for that purpose. it even fit my B3 boots 

Simond Speed 22 (or 33 for guide pack). I have and use this as a main daypack for rock (or ice) multi-pitch and alpine. Its really light (<400) and cheap, still provides a fairly hardwearing pack, with all the features i want from a such pack(full length daisy, rope/tool carry, internal + external small zip pocket, bladder. Lastly its a fair bit cheaper than anything, without being cheaper in construction. Some cons are the following: backpanel cannot be taken out (altought with this pack i realized that its not the end of the world) and it is not a drybag construction, just drawstring + flap, so i do not trust solely this as protection in a big rain. (the 33l variant has a proper internal drybag like the Arcteryx Alpha series)

Another great (and premium bag) is the Samaya Ultra line (20 and 35L) It is a minimalistic alpine bag, with internal drybag, brain/flap, removable backpanel and metal-frame, ultralight materials (woven-dyneema, DCF+Polyester hybrid) Ski/snowboard carry. Really well designed and implemented. Cons: price (altough there are sales on their official site) the hybrid material is not that robust (150d polyester face fabric) and no full length daisy. They had just realesed some new packs using conventional materials, cheaper price focused on rock.

Also recommend checking out Blue Ice for anybody looking for packs.

FrankPS wrote:

What is a "guide pack" and how is it different from a normal or non-guide pack?

Mostly what Andy said. I need to carry a decent amount of gear to the climb, then still carry more stuff than I would if I were just recreationally climbing. A small little 10 or 15L pack won't get everything to the base, but a 40L pack is a pain to climb with.

@Charlie, it performed well this morning. Fit a 60m rope, some extra carabiners, 1L water, shoes, harness, helmet in the pack. Had approach shoes, water, and half the rope inside while climbing. No issues hitting my head (pack was maybe 75% full). It is a bit longer than expected, so not easy to get into chalk bag, but not too difficult. Climbs really well. Carries well when loaded, it's obviously not a super comfortable pack with just a webbing hip belt, but overall, I'm happy! We'll see when it's really loaded down, but I'm optimistic!