Locking Quick Draws......keep or not?

Hey all, so I was bored one day, and made these 2 locking quick draws, thinking they might come in handy in certain climbing situations.......but I'm not sure if they are worth having as is.

I climb lots of trad and some sport, FWIW.

Tell me why I should keep these in my quiver, or why they are not worth keeping and I should break them down and just use the lockers for other uses!

Thanks!......John

I think the consensus was that they're more common/handy in sport climbing situations where bolts and projecting are present. I'd do whatever makes you feel more safe. Personally, I would have had just one side locking though. 

I know a lot of people who have a locking Quickdraw that they used as a dedicated draw for using with bolted anchors.  One locking and one nonlocking gives you security that the rope won't accidentally unclip but also another one easy to clip as you approach the anchor if leading after.  I've never heard of 2 regular opposed draws ever failing in an anchor though. 

The other major use is if you're doing a route with a very crucial bolt that you can't risk the draw failing on.  Using a locking draw takes out any chance that it can unclip, which does happen in weird circumstances.

Eric D wrote:

I think the consensus was that they're more common/handy in sport climbing situations where bolts and projecting are present. I'd do whatever makes you feel more safe. Personally, I would have had just one side locking though. 

Thanks!.....which side would you have locking? The bolt side or the rope side? Thx!

Influencer guides seemed to love these but I’ve never found a practical use for them, it’s so easy to build a comparable tool with what you have on you.

Only use I could see would be headpointing where you’ve pre-identified a critical placement or bolt before going for a redpoint burn.

I usually carry one for top rope anchors and on some easier climbs, where an unclipped draw would guarantee decking. The former is not really necessary, but mostly for peace of mind.

The latter is common of easier sport climbing in my area. Many of those climbs have like 3 bolts for the first 50 feet. I might use a locking draw just to guarantee that I won't die if I happen to slip that high up. The harder routes are usually grid bolted to make projecting easier for the cool guys.

Carry them on your harness for a few weeks and see if you use them. I used to have one and almost never used it. Maybe you will use it 

Personally, I like a locker draw for adding security to a top rope anchor, locking the rope in to a bolt or jesus piece at the bottom of a runout/thin gear section and as a quick rappel extension. It’s also useful for belaying up, and lowering from your harness with a guide mode device.

I usually have two set up on 18cm dyneema slings in the gear closet at home, but would probably only carry one and I usually set it up with an HMS carabiner, either in the rubber/rope side for single pitch context (top rope anchors), or in the open loop side for alpine rappel extensions (in this case the rubber side then prevents belay loop side carabiner from crossloading during a rappel). If it’s not set up and racked to my harness, I’ll sometimes make one up on the go using an alpine draw.

Besides as a component in a top rope anchor, all of these situations are fairly niche, and sometimes a double sling tied into a PAS is better. A locker draw probably shouldn’t be your only tool for the job. 

Sometimes it seems too specific, but time and time again I find it coming in handy, and end up appreciating the nifty locker draw.

P B wrote:

t’s so easy to build a comparable tool with what you have on you.

Not sure what this means. You have bring something with you to make an anchor. Two locker draws work well. 

Completely pointless (at least for sport). Only useful in exceptional situations so not worth carrying all the time just in case. Unclipping happens very rarely (and typically results from suboptimal orientation), and if you're worried before an unknown section just double up with normal draws. With hangers instead of glue-ins double up by clipping top carabiner to bolt side carabiner of first draw from the back and the lower carabiner to the rope in opposing direction. If a a draw unclips, it will typically be the rope side.

And if you don't trust two opposing carabiners for lowering (especially if the lower draws are still in place), maybe climbing is too exciting a hobby for you.

I’d bring two locker draws if I were on a first date with an overly safety conscious beginner climber. The rope is not magically going to unclip from two opposite and opposed carabiners.

Colonel Mustard wrote:

I’d bring two locker draws if I were on a first date with an overly safety conscious beginner climber. The rope is not magically going to unclip from two opposite and opposed carabiners.

Maybe I don't follow but couldn't you just simply put one locker in the anchor if you want a locker there? Is the anchor not connected with chain in this scenario? Why else would you need locking quickdraws and four screwgates that need to be checked and screwed shut instead of one?

Pino Pepino wrote:

Maybe I don't follow but couldn't you just simply put one locker in the anchor if you want a locker there? Is the anchor not connected with chain in this scenario? Why else would you need locking quickdraws and four screwgates that need to be checked and screwed shut instead of one?

You’re not following. I’m saying you don’t need locking anything in the typical two bolt top rope anchor scenario, I would probably only do so to appease somebody else’s sensibilities.

I like having a locker draw on when I climb and set up extremely large top ropes where the anchor cannot be seen. I had a double rope set up on a route as a TR and it gave me piece of mind to have lockers on a 160’ TR.

John R wrote:

Thanks!.....which side would you have locking? The bolt side or the rope side? Thx!

On the rope side, for top rope anchors. Maybe on both if there is a chance the first draw might unclip somehow. Where the rope has a chance to wiggle the draw too much. 

For trad and sport my favorite version of this is a locking alpine draw made with 2x edelrid pure sliders and a 60cm sling. Comes in super handy for anchor shenanigans, quick personal tether, clipping the one bolt on a trad route before a runout, or even a critical bolt on a sport route. Easy enough to clip one handed and more versatile than a quickdraw. And if you want a locking quickdraw for critical bolts on harder sport, I still would rather have sliders on there (rope side and maybe bolt side too) rather than fussing with screwgates on lead. 

I used to use a locking quickdraw as a rappel extension, which was nice at times but not worth leaving it built all the time especially on trad routes. Now I just basket hitch a single or double sling for a rappel extension as I already have a bunch of those.

Most of the cool tricks that a locking draw are good for are honestly more guiding situations, like setting up a lower on a guide mode ATC belay from above, but there are other ways of doing it that don't require a special locking draw so I say learn different methods and don't bother carrying those things especially on multipitch where weight matters.

Personally I've switched completely to using edelrid bulletproof draws for TR anchors, either 2x nonlocking quickdraws (18cm+) or a quad with either 1 locking and 1 nonlocking or 2 locking (all bulletproof on the rope side). So if you really want a dedicated locking quickdraw for TR anchors you probably only need one plus a non-locking draw and I'd consider putting bulletproofs on there. Those little BD lockers are great but I doubt they'll last very long with TR laps.

I have one and think it is good for specific situations, but I find them far too nice to carry on most routes.

For example, my local crag has a classic route with a bolt just before you traverse into a slot followed by some hard climbing. If you fall and the draw unclips you are likely to get hurt. Now it is just part of the rack to bring a locker draw for that bolt.

I use a variation of this for jumaring routes (when I wanna set up a static photo line or a toprope for TR soloing when I am alone). I clip the locker to the first bolt, the other side on mine has two non locking biners with opposing gates, then clip the next bolt with a regular draw and ascent the hanging line. I screw the gate closed on the locker when I pass it. Gives me peace of mind since if that first draw unclipps itself I am effed.

About falling out of 2 standard quick draws: Murphy's law suggests it will happen. Anecdotal evidence suggests it has happened: https://americanalpineclub.org/news/2023/4/11/the-prescriptionapril-2023

An additional thought: the locked carabiner is more robust in several other situations--harder to accidentally unclip from bolts, odd placements where the carabiner gate is always rubbing on a rock nub... And if you're climbing with inexperienced folks, and they are cleaning the quickdraw as they 2nd the route, maybe the locked gate will keep them from absentmindedly cleaning the anchor draws. Or give the belayer time to recognize that the climber is absentmindedly cleaning the anchor draws and remind the climber about the difference between the intermediate anchors and the top anchors.

To the original question: Is it worth having? Mostly that sounds like a personal preference, a tradeoff of a few ounces and a few moments of locking/unlocking (and the occasional, longer frustration when they jam shut) for an increase in odds from 1 in lots of millions to one in lots of lots of millions. 

I typically carry a single quickdraw with two lockers on it.  It is somewhat of a specialty piece and easily replaced by other things that I have with me as well but you can say that about most climbing gear.  I have found myself using two-draw anchors when cragging in places like Squamish.  I'm often with a mixed group of climbers where some might lead the pitch and others might want to take a top rope lap or even a few before leading.  If I can't check my anchor myself and especially if I have newer climbers in the group then I want one of the carabiners to be a locker for piece of mind and the other to not be a locker so someone can clip it easily when they get to the anchor.  I could do the same thing with a quad but this is simpler.  When I'm cragging I'm not too fussed about the weight of an extra draw and two lockers that I'd probably be carrying some other way anyway.  If you're not climbing with groups of people and your climbing partner is reliable then this use case probably isn't as relevant for you.

I also use a locker-draw sometimes for my rappel extension but more often than not I end up using a longer sling basket hitched or a Petzl Connect Adjust.

Worthless. Watch how some big wallers do anchors and logistics. They have no problem clove hitching the entire belay directly to a single bolt off a normal carabiner. 

Utilizing double locking carabiners for 2 draws to top rope? .... Sure go for it. But you aren't making anything safer.