Lightweight steel carabiner?

Hello guys,

I recently came across a technique used by arborists to make a retrievable sling anchor: pass your sling around a rock feature / tree, clip in 2 carabiners (one large, one small, like a maillon), tie up a knot in the rope on the end closest to the large 'biner, then when you pull the rope, the whole thing goes down with it)
I really like the idea of not leaving webbings behind when trad climbing... but I'm also afraid of reusing an aluminium carabiner that would get busted by big falls on rock....
My idea was to use a steel oval locker.. so I bought one last week... a Petzl Oxan, and got really, really surprised by the weight of the thing! 200g, that's a lot of grams to put around your waist for a single carabiner... :D
Also, the Petzl Oxan is rated at 38kN, which is clearly overkill for rock climbing..!
I searched online and the lightest steel biner I could find was one designed by Kong, weighing 143g... that's already more decent! rated at 24kN, so a normal carabiner for climbing. It's still quite heavy though, but hey, steel is steel :)
I'm just curious... are there lighter steel carabiners out there?
Looking fwd to your suggestions ;)

Survey says…. bot?

Demetri V wrote:

Survey says…. bot?

I'm sorry.. What? Why?

I think you said it yourself: “Steel is steel”. I’m not sure you will find anything lighter. 

There are a lot of steel alloys out there (Stainless steel, carbon steel, some fancy alloys that mix together titanium, aluminium etc. to a certain percentage...), but I'm no mechanical engineer to evaluate their relevance for this kind of application
And again, the strength ratings for most steel carabiners are not that of standard rock climbing equipments. So I woudn't be surprised if some brands had developed some interesting products that could bring the weight down a little more.
So IMHO there's a legitimate question here... ;)

You are going to need a fairly large carabiner for a knotted climbing rope to reliably pass through. A beal escaper can be used in a similar setup, except that the sling is on a tether instead of there needing to be a knot.

Well, steel is heavy :)
You can find lighter non-lockers, but that is most likely a no-go for what you want to use them.
One option - take a look at Edelrid BulletProof series of carabiners. These are aluminum carabiners with steel insert at wear points.

Here is "BULLETPROOF SCREW ECO",  quite svelte at 60g
https://edelrid.com/de-en/sport/carabiners-and-quickdraws/bulletproof-screw-eco 

Slightly larger and heavier  - "HMS BULLETPROOF SCREW" at 82g
https://edelrid.com/us-en/sport/carabiners-and-quickdraws/hms-bulletproof-screw 

Delta screw link and an oval works, also bow shackles, a piece of cord makes a simple lock.

Steel is literally worse for this application. Microfractures are a myth in aluminum. They're very real in steel.

Adam Fleming wrote:

Steel is literally worse for this application. Microfractures are a myth in aluminum. They're very real in steel.

Would you mind expanding on microfractures in steel in the context of impacts? I'm surprised by this statement and would love to see any research/reference you could point to. 

A lightweight steel carabiner. Reminds me of the joke about finding a woman who is hot, sane, and smart - "pick 2". 

Or a man! My lame jokes don't discriminate

John The Wolf wrote:

Would you mind expanding on microfractures in steel in the context of impacts? I'm surprised by this statement and would love to see any research/reference you could point to. 

Oh no. Am I perpetuating a myth? I feel like I picked this up from a mentor about a decade ago. Let me dig into it and I'll report back. 

Adam Fleming wrote:

Oh no. Am I perpetuating a myth? I feel like I picked this up from a mentor about a decade ago. Let me dig into it and I'll report back. 

Hi There!
So for me, I've always been taught that Aluminium is a more "plastic" material than steel, which is more "bendy", so microfractures are probably less likely to happen with steel than aluminium... but your comment made me want to dig further, and see what part of this is true and what part of it is just a "myth" I'm myself perpetuating... ;)
I usually turn to HowNot2 videos and his ginormous database of "mythbuster" break tests :D
And as I expected, he made a nice video for that: https://youtu.be/L8MFUsgvJ1c
After watching this, whether it is "Big Climbing" perpetuating a myth to make us buy more gear or not, I'm willing to trust aluminium carabiners for my use case, given the massive weight difference ;)

@Brocky, your setup with the delta quicklink looks nice too though! and at 86g for the 8mm quicklink, it's not too bad either if one has a hard time feeling comfortable reusing aluminium carabiner :) Have you frequently used this retrievable sling setup? Did you ever have issues passing the knot through? I'm really curious!

It’s called a friction saver you can buy it premade. They even make the ball specifically the right size. You coulld probably just friction hitch the ball to your rope. It’s certainly an interesting idea and has crossed my mind for bailing, but it’s a whole ‘nother thing to carry.

I have in the past, and many still do, use them for tree work, using a Moving Rope System.  They work great, most use rings, generally didn’t need it to be mid line attachable.  I only had trouble once when I used a new rope, same one as the old one, and assumed the stopper would go through the large ring. Being new it was stiffer and I didn’t tighten it up as much as the used rope.  Sometimes you have to wiggle the rope to make the knot pass through the large eye.