Fingerboard or Kilter/Touchstone/Tension/Moon boards to build strength to get to V9?

There’s only 1 Kilter board at my Gym and it’s much farther away than I’d like to go for an afternoon climbing session.

So, I’m using Touchstone, Tension and have access to a Moon board. It’s difficult to get V0 on -35, -45 and -40 degrees, so, guessing they’re V4 minimum to V?

Currently flashing V4, at most gyms, but unable to pull V0 on these boards as of yet. It’s strengthening my fingers though.

Let’s see how I progress?

I think the board type/brand doesn't matter too much in your case, as long as you are consistent with your training/climbing and getting plenty of rest between board sessions.  The Kilter and Moon are very hard on the fingers, especially at harder grades.  I think limiting yourself to only one or two sessions per week, with plenty of rest between board sessions, will ensure consistent improvement and strength gains but reduce the risk of injury.  I don't know your physiology and strength metrics, but I think based on the grades you are climbing, it's still in your best interest to avoid hang boarding for now and just stick to training through climbing.  It will also help a lot to climb on these system boards in the company of really good climbers, watching how they move and solve problems as well.  

Best of luck!

Sam D wrote:

I think the board type/brand doesn't matter too much in your case, as long as you are consistent with your training/climbing and getting plenty of rest between board sessions.  The Kilter and Moon are very hard on the fingers, especially at harder grades.  I think limiting yourself to only one or two sessions per week, with plenty of rest between board sessions, will ensure consistent improvement and strength gains but reduce the risk of injury.  I don't know your physiology and strength metrics, but I think based on the grades you are climbing, it's still in your best interest to avoid hang boarding for now and just stick to training through climbing.  It will also help a lot to climb on these system boards in the company of really good climbers, watching how they move and solve problems as well.  

Best of luck!

Thanks, Great advice!

I’m no coach but I figure even rank beginners should hang board if they’re motivated. It probably has the lowest ratio of injury to finger strength improvement. (But climbing requires technique, so don’t forego the actual climbing)

JaredG wrote:

I’m no coach but I figure even rank beginners should hang board if they’re motivated. It probably has the lowest ratio of injury to finger strength improvement. (But climbing requires technique, so don’t forego the actual climbing)

I’ve been hang boarding adding up to 135 pounds  on full holds for 20 seconds with the BeastMaker 1000 and roughly 70 pounds 20mm 10 seconds open hand not crimping. I weight between 193 to 196 pounds bare weight.

So, now I’d like to build body strength along with finger strength together and I appear to have enough grip strength but not enough body strength to do V0 on the boards yet, if that makes sense?

I'd consider lowering weight significantly and training half crimp on 20mm...

I can climb v5-v6 on moonboard and I doubt I could hang 70lb on a 20mm open hand 

work on strengthening posterior chain and mindfully training tension. Keep climbing cave and steeper walls. 

I use my thumb a lot on the moonboard, you can pinch most holds. 

Li Hu wrote:

I’ve been hang boarding adding up to 135 pounds  on full holds for 20 seconds with the BeastMaker 1000 and roughly 70 pounds 20mm 10 seconds open hand not crimping. I weight between 193 to 196 pounds bare weight.

So, now I’d like to build body strength along with finger strength together and I appear to have enough grip strength but not enough body strength to do V0 on the boards yet, if that makes sense?

135 lb ADDED? That’s insane! If you are adding this much weight, the hold is too easy for you, and you aren’t gaining much by hanging on that edge. Pick a harder hold to hang on.

But if you are really able to hang on with that much weight, I don’t think more hangboard is going to be very beneficial for you at the moment.

Your fingers are more than strong enough to jangle easy problems on the boards. Finger strength isn’t limiting you. Just get on the boards, and tty hard.

The gym climbs under v4 tend to have bigger holds, and tend to be less overhanging. I’m guessing your biggest limitation is not knowing how to move on overhanging walls.

You also should, of course, try harder climbs set on regular gym walls. 

Li Hu wrote:

I’ve been hang boarding adding up to 135 pounds  on full holds for 20 seconds with the BeastMaker 1000 and roughly 70 pounds 20mm 10 seconds open hand not crimping. I weight between 193 to 196 pounds bare weight.

So, now I’d like to build body strength along with finger strength together and I appear to have enough grip strength but not enough body strength to do V0 on the boards yet, if that makes sense?

Given the weights, grip, and climbing ability you've described I absolutely guarantee you are doing this badly. Definitely good have someone who knows what they're doing show you, in person, how to train grip strength. The added load will drop significantly when using the right form, but the training will actually be useful and less likely to injure you.

Dan Schmidt wrote:

Given the weights, grip, and climbing ability you've described I absolutely guarantee you are doing this badly. Definitely good have someone who knows what they're doing show you, in person, how to train grip strength. The added load will drop significantly when using the right form, but the training will actually be useful and less likely to injure you.

I had been asking some coaches at my gym regarding form, and have been doing this for about three months. However, the only improvements I’ve had are being able to hang for a long time on holds, and almost never getting pumped on climbs that used to frighten me. For sure, my climbing skill hasn’t improved noticeably other than that, so I’m attempting to use the board to train my core and hopefully gain some skill?

This is only 115 but I’ll ask somebody to grab a picture at 135. I progress each session 45,70,90,115,125, 135 hangs for 20 second full grip

Then 20mm with 45. 55, 65 and 70 for 10 seconds open grip.

Let me know if the form looks bad or not?

I’ll try half crimps as suggested by Lena.

Li Hu wrote:

This is only 115 but I’ll ask somebody to grab a picture at 135. I progress each session 45,70,90,115,125, 135 hangs for 20 second full grip

Then 20mm with 45. 55, 65 and 70 for 10 seconds open grip.

Let me know if the form looks bad or not?

I’ll try half crimps as suggested by Lena.

Oh, you're basically hanging on a pull-up bar. I wouldn't call that "open grip" in a climbing context and I don't think it's all that useful (definitely not for the fingers), but it's not likely to hurt you. I thought you were hanging on an edge with that much weight added. 

I would suggest you start actually climbing on the boards of your preference and making your way up the grades instead of doing exercizes which you think make you better at climbing on the boards of your preference.

Going from (not) climbing V0 on a board to climbing V9 on the same board is still a long way to go, and you might not even make it to that arbitrary grade you set as a goal. Not that it matters. Enjoy the process of climbing, that's basically what we are all doing regardless of the level we're climbing at.

Looking at the picture of your training methods I find it hard to know if your post is serious and not a troll post. If you're hanging on the warm-up jugs of a hangboard you're obviously not training your fingers regardless of the amount of weight you are adding.

*Reading through your post about hangboarding I see that you are also hanging the 20mm slots on the beastmaker open handed with added weight.

I would suggest talking to somebody knowledgeable about finger strength training, preferably a coach, and I would also suggest taking it very easy with training your finger strength. Your fingers might be a lot weaker than you suspect or like to think.

Dan Schmidt wrote:

Oh, you're basically hanging on a pull-up bar. I wouldn't call that "open grip" in a climbing context and I don't think it's all that useful (definitely not for the fingers), but it's not likely to hurt you. I thought you were hanging on an edge with that much weight added. 

Right, 135 pounds is on the full holds. Not exactly a pull up bar as I can’t wrap my fingers completely.

I only get up to 70 pounds on 20mm holds, but even that’s only 35% of my body weight.

That’s primarily why I’m more interested in using a board to build up the rest of my body.

Halbert wrote:

I would suggest you start actually climbing on the boards of your preference and making your way up the grades instead of doing exercizes which you think make you better at climbing on the boards of your preference.

Yes, that’s what I’m attempting.

Going from (not) climbing V0 on a board to climbing V9 on the same board is still a long way to go, and you might not even make it to that arbitrary grade you set as a goal. Not that it matters. Enjoy the process of climbing, that's basically what we are all doing regardless of the level we're climbing at.

Sure, it’s a “sort of” goal. Not really expecting to make it to V9… but the process is fun I agree.

I’m flashing V4 at pretty much all the gyms these days, but V0 on these boards feels much more difficult or different?

Looking at the picture of your training methods I find it hard to know if your post is serious and not a troll post. If you're hanging on the warm-up jugs of a hangboard you're obviously not training your fingers regardless of the amount of weight you are adding.

Not a troll post, I’m asking for any advice, mainly.

Those are the warmup jugs, but was told that’s not as good a method to build shoulders as board climbing. The 20mm open grip is for finger strength.

*Reading through your post about hangboarding I see that you are also hanging the 20mm slots on the beastmaker open handed with added weight.

I would suggest talking to somebody knowledgeable about finger strength training, preferably a coach, and I would also suggest taking it very easy with training your finger strength. Your fingers might be a lot weaker than you suspect or like to think.

Absolutely, my fingers are currently the weakest link.

I’m trying to be careful as well.

Li Hu wrote:

Yes, that’s what I’m attempting.

Sure, it’s a “sort of” goal. Not really expecting to make it to V9… but the process is fun I agree.

I’m flashing V4 at pretty much all the gyms these days, but V0 on these boards feels much more difficult or different?

Not a troll post, I’m asking for any advice, mainly.

Those are the warmup jugs, but was told that’s not as good a method to build shoulders as board climbing. The 20mm open grip is for finger strength.

Absolutely, my fingers are currently the weakest link.

I’m trying to be careful as well.

I like your attitude.

Basically what I was trying to say is that climbing generally is the best way of training for climbing.

Board climbing usually is more about raw power than commercial setting in the gym which can be more on the technical side. Also some gyms prefer to grade soft to please their customers. 

That said the moonboard is known to be graded hard and in my experience the grades on the moonboard are all over the place. I personally find the moonboard quite hard on the fingers and wouldn't nessecarily recommend it for beginners. I find the kilter board a much more welcoming board in the lower grades.

Climbing a lot on steep problems in the gym will build up your strength and might be more accessible than steep board problems. Don't shy away from repeating the same problem several times in your training session.

About finger boarding I would also suggest using the half crimp position as mentioned. And forgetting about added weight for a while. You might even have to start with feet on hangboarding depending on your current level of finger strength. A session with a physio or coach will be very useful to get the intensity right. Also in relation to the other climbing you'll be doing during the week.

Don't go too hard, think about the long term and enjoy the climbing journey :)

Halbert wrote:

I like your attitude.

Basically what I was trying to say is that climbing generally is the best way of training for climbing.

Board climbing usually is more about raw power than commercial setting in the gym which can be more on the technical side. Also some gyms prefer to grade soft to please their customers. 

That said the moonboard is known to be graded hard and in my experience the grades on the moonboard are all over the place. I personally find the moonboard quite hard on the fingers and wouldn't nessecarily recommend it for beginners. I find the kilter board a much more welcoming board in the lower grades.

Climbing a lot on steep problems in the gym will build up your strength and might be more accessible than steep board problems. Don't shy away from repeating the same problem several times in your training session.

About finger boarding I would also suggest using the half crimp position as mentioned. And forgetting about added weight for a while. You might even have to start with feet on hangboarding depending on your current level of finger strength. A session with a physio or coach will be very useful to get the intensity right. Also in relation to the other climbing you'll be doing during the week.

Don't go too hard, think about the long term and enjoy the climbing journey :)

Thanks for this advice!

Yup, enjoying the journey.   

I highly recommend Lattice Training on youtube for videos regarding training, just search Lattice Hangboarding or lattice strength for climbers. They are tried and true coaches and will give you great info if you're interested in learning how to train. I agree with the others that your best tool will be just climbing. Climbing should encompass at least 75% of your total training time with the other 25% being strength and flexibility work. But for beginners it could easily be 100% climbing as the technique is so important, especially since it seems your finger strength is quite strong. 

You said shoulders are a weak point of yours, so maybe weighted pull ups would be beneficial, on a bar or on the hangboard jug like your photo above.

Best of Luck!

How is your 1 arm hang? I found those to be much more intense and beneficial for upping my game outside. They work your core, shoulder stability and arm strength. Trying to hold on and not twist takes a lot of engagment. I don't climb in a gym since 2020 and I climb in the v6-8 range outdoors for reference. Good luck
!

Got my first V0!!! It’s called “first V0”.  

One arm hang still straight arm on the 35mm hold. Can’t get the 120 degree bend at the elbow yet. I can start to feel a tiny bit of bend.

Dyrt King wrote:

I highly recommend Lattice Training on youtube for videos regarding training, just search Lattice Hangboarding or lattice strength for climbers. They are tried and true coaches and will give you great info if you're interested in learning how to train. I agree with the others that your best tool will be just climbing. Climbing should encompass at least 75% of your total training time with the other 25% being strength and flexibility work. But for beginners it could easily be 100% climbing as the technique is so important, especially since it seems your finger strength is quite strong. 

You said shoulders are a weak point of yours, so maybe weighted pull ups would be beneficial, on a bar or on the hangboard jug like your photo above.

Best of Luck!

These videos are helping.

Need to wait for my shoulder to completely heal before trying these recommendations.

Thanks

Li Hu, in another thread you mentioned climbing 5.13 in the 80s. What training methods, if any, did you use to get to 5.13 back in the day, and do you think those would still be useful to you?