Wild country friend vs camalot

I have started building my trad rack. I have a bunch of nuts and a .75 C4. I have decided to buy 4 more cams, so I have .5 to 3. I am deciding between buying friends and camalots but leaning toward friends because I can get them for $15 cheaper. Is it worth it to pay the extra $ for the C4s, or would it not make a difference to buy four friends and just have a single C4.

The latest generation of Camalots have veered too far toward lightness. My buddy took a 25 foot victory whip on Super Crack at Indian Creek. He was at the top, lot of rope stretch, brand new  blue #3, perfect placement.  It caught him but the lobes bent and was unusable afterward. I'm buying the Wild Country friend version of the camalot now. When you compare the two, you'll see the difference.

15 bucks less for a better cam. Mark is right. 

I favor the new Friends over C4s, but the sizes are slightly off so I still have a #2 C4 as the #2 Friend is more like a 2.5 (noticeably bigger). They work well together, but can be tricky for some crack sizes if you only have one brand. 

Mark Webster wrote:

The latest generation of Camalots have veered too far toward lightness. My buddy took a 25 foot victory whip on Super Crack at Indian Creek. He was at the top, lot of rope stretch, brand new  blue #3, perfect placement.  It caught him but the lobes bent and was unusable afterward. I'm buying the Wild Country friend version of the camalot now. When you compare the two, you'll see the difference.

Excellent example of why victory whips are idiotic. 

Marc801 C wrote:

Excellent example of why victory whips are idiotic. 

IMO get the cheaper one, they're similar enough that unless you already have a preference it's not going to matter much. I have both camalots and friends on my rack and I like them both just fine. The extendable sling on the friends can be kinda nice as well.

Another vote for WC. Later when you double up you can get DMM Dragons and get great range variation. In general Friends are slightly larger than BD and Dragons are slightly smaller than BD.

Hey Mark, was it an ultralight or a regular C4?

About a year ago, I upgraded to one rack of WCs and one rack of BDs.   If the route calls for just one rack, the BDs stay in the bag.  The extendable sling on the WCs just lets me go faster.

Ken Tubbs wrote:

Hey Mark, was it an ultralight or a regular C4?

The problem Marc is talking about is the same on both cams, while not identical both the new C4's and the ultralights have very similar lobe designs with the same weak points. 

Marc801 C wrote:

Excellent example of why victory whips are idiotic. 

The fact that the cam was permanently damaged by a 25 foot whipper is disconcerting (although conceivable if the cam was placed in such a way that required a lot of rotation, say if just the cam sling was clipped, and the cam had walked into having its stem pointing straight out, which is pretty common in Indian Creek), but I’m sort of blown away that somebody would take a victory whip onto a cam in a soft rock area. Like, haven’t you noticed the track marks inside cracks from when people fall on gear there? It actually damages the rock.

To the topic at hand, if you don’t fall a lot on gear, you’ll be hard pressed to notice a placement difference between modern friends and C4s, since their ranges are so similar. I’d go with whatever’s cheaper, personally.

DMM dragons are the nicest by far, unless your aid climbing all the time. WC and BD are about the same IMO. 

Joshua Brown wrote:

DMM dragons are the nicest by far, unless your aid climbing all the time. WC and BD are about the same IMO. 

That's a controversial take as the no thumb loops are a hard no for many climbers. Love them personally myself. Many would say Friends are the best non Totem cam as they have thumb loops and extendy slings. 

Just wanted to provide a common, different perspective. 

Ricky Harline wrote:

That's a controversial take as the no thumb loops are a hard no for many climbers. Love them personally myself. Many would say Friends are the best non Totem cam as they have thumb loops and extendy slings. 

Just wanted to provide a common, different perspective. 

I'm one of those climbers. I will never spend money on a cam that doesn't have thumb loops. It's personal preference of course but I can't stand cams without a thumb loop, I wouldn't even take them if offered for free because I know I'd never use them

Marc801 C wrote:

Excellent example of why victory whips are idiotic. 

On gear in soft sandstone, sure. On bolts, nah, let er rip.

As someone who owns c4’s but has used friends—I vote friends.

Thank you…it seems like the general consensus is friends so I’m going to buy them.

Nate Nathanaelson wrote:

On gear in soft sandstone, sure. On bolts, nah, let er rip.

Sure, but even with that, why add a needless fall to the rope?

Cooper Juke wrote:

Thank you…it seems like the general consensus is friends so I’m going to buy them.

One of those rare mp threads where everyone went home informed and happy. 

Marc801 C wrote:

Sure, but even with that, why add a needless fall to the rope?

Why even climb to begin with?

Ken Tubbs wrote:

Hey Mark, was it an ultralight or a regular C4?

It was not an ultralight. It was the very latest BD. I had no idea he was going to jump off. I'll do that at the gym, but not outside, and especially not on someone else's (my) gear. He was a superstrong and experienced Creek climber...but yeah, you could call it bad judgement on his part. Still, over the years I've had many friends take real falls in various climbing areas and I've never seen a cam lobe bend. The skeletonizing they have been doing to their cams in the name of lightness has, in my opinion gone too far. All you have to do is compare this generation to the last one.