Camp Dyon express KS vs Petzl Spirit for sportclimbing?

After much research and advice i’m stuck choosing between the Petzl spirit and camp dyon express KS.

I’ve read all there is to read and the petzl has a million glowing reviews where the dyon has been hard to find any review.

Price wise, where i am they’re basically equally expensive and  so i bought one of each to see if i could make a decision like that but to no no avail

So i’m here to get some votes and experiences from you all who might have some more experience than me.

I don’t have very big hands and i’m looking for a set of sportclimbing draws with maybe a small multipitch here or there, nothing crazy.

I have noticed that my petzl spirit after a few uses has already started getting creaky in one hinge but i’m not sure if that’s a freak incident or even has any importance.

Please help me choose?

Both are great.  You can’t lose. Maybe split your rack.  

Dyons are a bit narrow at the most acute corner of the triangle so fatter dogbones dont sit nicely.  

Spirits have a wider gauge of metal so fewer can be racked on XS and S harnesses, which have small gear loops.  

The common knocks are:

Dyons’ wire gate can catch on rock. This seems like a very unlikely edge case. ymmv

Spirits are heavy.  They are lighter than many options.  After nine years during which we cleaned them twice, we have not encountered the gate issue you mention.

Six of each and you won’t be unhappy with either.  

Personally I'm a huge fan of the dyons as they have wonderful action. All my Alpine draws are dyons, but have not used the official quickdraws. Have not used spirits, but likely they work great as well with the keylock nose. You can't really lose with either, so I'd just go with whichever one you find more on sale. 

I’ll vote for spirit express. I have them and love them. I’ve only handled the Dyon in a shop and the gate felt spongy plus the knoby gate is definitely more likely to snag on a rock and you’ll be whipping on an open carabiner. Tons of people love the dyons though and I expect to be lambasted for my opinion. 

Pick the one that looks cooler. 

I have Dyon quickdraws, my main climbing partner has spirits. 

Durability: the spirits easily win here. I'm not saying the Dyons are not durable but there's no doubt that the spirits will last longer and can take more abuse. 

Weight: at 33 grams the Dyons are lighter, but that gap is pretty narrow with the newest incarnation of the Spirits, which are now 37g. Both are usually 1-3 grams over the specification if you actually weigh them on a scale. Kind of an insignificant difference at this point. 

Action: this is where things get interesting. Dyons have the nicer action to me, they are the nicest clipping carabiners I've ever used. Some folks love the way bent gates clip. The gate clearance is definitely larger on the dyons. Camp dogbones hold the rope-side carabiner better than the petzl's do, but petzl dogbones will accommodate a wider range of carabiners if you swap out the rope-side biners (for example with an Edelrid bulletproof for the first bolt and for anchors). 

Other factors: Dyons are not great in stick clips. Dyons have a much narrower nose profile which is very useful for clipping into crowded bolts and especially into slings. You can rack more Dyons on a gear loop than you could spirits. Spirits are just heavy enough the gate clearance just low enough that I would not use them for alpine draws, Dyons are amazing for alpine draws. 

In 2024 I'd probably lean towards spirits quickdraws if I was only using them for sport climbing. If I wanted mixed use quickdraws, or too rob carabiners for alpine draws, or if alpine/winter climbing was in the picture I would get Dyons. 

Scott D wrote:

I have Dyon quickdraws, my main climbing partner has spirits. 

Durability: the spirits easily win here. I'm not saying the Dyons are not durable but there's no doubt that the spirits will last longer and can take more abuse. 

Weight: at 33 grams the Dyons are lighter, but that gap is pretty narrow with the newest incarnation of the Spirits, which are now 37g. Both are usually 1-3 grams over the specification if you actually weigh them on a scale. Kind of an insignificant difference at this point. 

Action: this is where things get interesting. Dyons have the nicer action to me, they are the nicest clipping carabiners I've ever used. Some folks love the way bent gates clip. The gate clearance is definitely larger on the dyons. Camp dogbones hold the rope-side carabiner better than the petzl's do, but petzl dogbones will accommodate a wider range of carabiners if you swap out the rope-side biners (for example with an Edelrid bulletproof for the first bolt and for anchors). 

Other factors: Dyons are not great in stick clips. Dyons have a much narrower nose profile which is very useful for clipping into crowded bolts and especially into slings. You can rack more Dyons on a gear loop than you could spirits. Spirits are just heavy enough the gate clearance just low enough that I would not use them for alpine draws, Dyons are amazing for alpine draws. 

In 2024 I'd probably lean towards spirits quickdraws if I was only using them for sport climbing. If I wanted mixed use quickdraws, or too rob carabiners for alpine draws, or if alpine/winter climbing was in the picture I would get Dyons. 

My racking biners are a mix of WC Heliums, Camp Dyons, and the newest Spirit bent gates. On my kitchen scale, I haven't weighed a Dyon at less than 36g, whereas the Spirits weigh in consitently at their claimed weight. Now, I don't care about 3 or 4g one way or another and neither should you. Just saying that weight becomes even less a part of the equation when you know that they weigh essentially the same. My Heliums, which no one asked about, are also 37-38g.

Though I'm the inverse from Scott on the clipping action (I like the Spirits better), I think his breakdown is spot on. I love my Spirit draws for dogging (though I also have some DMM Shadows that I like even better)—if I were looking for something that was only  (or vast majority anyway) going to be used for sport climbing, it would be the Spirits over the Dyons. Doing some trad, doing double duty in alpine draws, climbing stuff where you may be clipping old pins, etc., then I'd go Dyon.

Try them both out, whichevwr feels better in your hands and clips the bolts better for you is the winner.

Both are great for sport

Nothing hasn’t already been said that I’ve experienced with both of these biners. Spirits do indeed clip very, very nice. As mentioned, Dyons are super nice for hooking into pitons or crowded bolts, or tensioned tat. One suggestion I might make is to follow advice of several on this thread and grab 4-6 of each, but consider swapping the bolt side spirit with the bolt side Dyons, and see how you like it. ALL of my alpines and QuickDraws have Dyons on the bolt side, and the only reason I don’t run DMM Alpha Sport (the dmm version of the spirit) is b/c my buddy griped about the weight of the alpha sport compared to the Trad Alpha… so I run those instead (10-12g savings per biner).

tl, dr: both are great choices, the spirits will hold up a bit longer than Dyons, so consider that when making your choice.

I use Dyons. I love them. I find them useful in every situation from sport to alpine, to ice because they are keylock (no snags while cleaning overhanging/traversin pitches), light (for alpine use), full size (they handle well with gloves), wiregate (light, no icing issues, less gate flutter).

I'm a big fan of the Spirits, haven't use the Dyons. I really like the keylock solid gate for ease of clipping and at only 37 grams per carabiner, they're lighter than even a lot of wire gate carabiners. 

I find the dyons too small to be comfortable to clip, I prefer spirit for clipping. Dmm alpha sports are the best sport draw those. 

Just my personal preference but for strictly sport climbing where gear loop space isn’t an issue, I’d go with the Spirits. They’re beefier and maybe more confidence inspiring. I love the Dyon carabiners but I only use them for alpine draws/trad climbing. The draws themselves are thinner and take up less space on your harness. You can also fit more of them on a hangar for anchors, and they clip into wires/fixed pieces easier since the nose is so narrow. The one downside of the Dyons is the gates need cleaning every once in a while or they will stick open. I’ve never had the same issue with the Spirits. 

Echoing some things … Spirits seem more durable and maybe nicer on the rope (wider radius).

Spirits work better if using a Superclip to stick clip.

I use dyons for my alpine draws and spirits for my sport draws. I really like them both. As others have said, the dyons have a narrower nose and are lighter. The spirits seem a bit more durable and handle better for me. 

If I were to choose one, I'd go with the dyons. 

I have both, both are excellent, I prefer clipping the rope or alpines/racking with dyons, I prefer clipping bolt side with the spirit. Try the dyon express mixed!! Both doggies are equally easy to grab to French free. The only REAL difference I've noticed is that the Camp dogbone (at least the longer one) is mega loose on the bolt side, which is better I guess for resisting carabiners rotation if you get short roped but worse for trying to clip a bolt while you're scared and reaching up at maximum extension on your tippy toes and have barely fingertips on the biner.

You're not going to get a consensus, they are both premium products of very similar carabiner size (I have smaller hands too). Buy some of each and clip them. Sell some here for a small loss when you figure out what you prefer. Or turn then into alpine draws.

Ben E wrote:

Just my personal preference but for strictly sport climbing where gear loop space isn’t an issue, I’d go with the Spirits. They’re beefier and maybe more confidence inspiring. I love the Dyon carabiners but I only use them for alpine draws/trad climbing. The draws themselves are thinner and take up less space on your harness. You can also fit more of them on a hangar for anchors, and they clip into wires/fixed pieces easier since the nose is so narrow. The one downside of the Dyons is the gates need cleaning every once in a while or they will stick open. I’ve never had the same issue with the Spirits. 

Thanks for the info! I’m curious to know what once in a while is? Is it like every 10 climbs/ once every 2 years,…?

Skyler Flora wrote:

I have both, both are excellent, I prefer clipping the rope or alpines/racking with dyons, I prefer clipping bolt side with the spirit. Try the dyon express mixed!! Both doggies are equally easy to grab to French free. The only REAL difference I've noticed is that the Camp dogbone (at least the longer one) is mega loose on the bolt side, which is better I guess for resisting carabiners rotation if you get short roped but worse for trying to clip a bolt while you're scared and reaching up at maximum extension on your tippy toes and have barely fingertips on the biner.

You're not going to get a consensus, they are both premium products of very similar carabiner size (I have smaller hands too). Buy some of each and clip them. Sell some here for a small loss when you figure out what you prefer. Or turn then into alpine draws.

Thank you for your insight! I would think that because of the loose dogbone they would cross load easier? But that’s not been your experience?

Evelien wrote:

Thanks for the info! I’m curious to know what once in a while is? Is it like every 10 climbs/ once every 2 years,…?

Seems like about once a year they need a cleaning or they start to stick open. Likely depends on how much you’re climbing, how clean you keep your gear, and where you’re climbing etc. I climb a lot in the desert so mine see a lot of dirt, though I try my best to keep them clean. Really though for sport climbing I’d go with the spirits or dmm alphas. They’re just a lot beefier and will probably last longer. 

Evelien wrote:

Thank you for your insight! I would think that because of the loose dogbone they would cross load easier? But that’s not been your experience?

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to protect against the carabiner cross loading/nose hooking in the hangar because the dogbone slides around a bit instead of the carabiner rotating, all dogbones are designed like this to some degree. I don't think it's functionally that different it's just one of those many minor "feel" things that create preferences. Other than carabiner size and a keylock nose all of this is super minor personal preferences. Everything rated from a major brand will treat you just fine, these are both excellent premium draws you'll love, don't overthink it too much.

Evelien wrote:

Thank you for your insight! I would think that because of the loose dogbone they would cross load easier? But that’s not been your experience?

The dogbone being loose at the bolt end has the advantage of being less likely to pull trad protection out of position (if used for trad, I don’t but some do) and allowing the climber to flip the carabiner on the bolt hanger from  hinge down (normal) to hinge up if the bolt hanger position increases the risk of the hanger unclipping the carabiner.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q845Poiu0BU

http://publications.americanalpineclub.org/articles/13201213050/Fall-on-Rock-Carabiner-Unclipped-from-Bolt