Most Sandbagged Climbing Areas in America

My roommate and are were trying to figure out the most challenging areas we've climbed in. The challenge could be either routes or physically taxing for the grade or mentally engaging.

Personally, I find Suicide Rocks or The Needles(both Southern Sierra and South Dakota) to be one of the most engaging areas to climb at.  What are some of yours?

I think that grading tends to be (& maybe should be) specific to that area. It would be nigh impossible to make every single area's grade conform to each other bc of the diversity of styles & rock types... that being said, Little Cottonwood 5.7 is quite diffecult.

Seth Bleazard wrote:

. that being said, Little Cottonwood 5.7 is quite diffecult.

So is spelling. 

Suicide ain’t Southern Sierra.

And Flower of High Rank is 5.9. Really.

“I think that grading tends to be (& maybe should be) specific to that area.”

Please provide your definition of backstepping first.

Seneca keeps you honest as does the Gunks.

Index Wa. I thought everyone knew this?

apogee wrote:

Suicide ain’t Southern Sierra.

And Flower of High Rank is 5.9. Really.

“I think that grading tends to be (& maybe should be) specific to that area.”

Please provide your definition of backstepping first.

I meant the Needles of South Dakota and the Needles of the southern Sierra. Try to keep up champ!

The grades are accurate in Suicide but the conditions are fickle and the face climbing is engaging. Insomnia is 11a and mellow while Iron Cross is much more desperate and insecure.

At all grades below 5.10 I think the Gunks has a real claim to be quite “sandbagged”. Considering that most of the single moves may not be that challenging, what the Gunks offers is rather extreme exposure and commitment for the grade. Gelsa at 5.4, Horseman at 5.5, and the Uber classic 5.6s are other worldly for the grade. 

Sandbagged compared to where? What is the 'baseline' climbing area? Theoretically, it was Yosemite ( or, before that, Tahquitz) but I don't think that was ever really true for most climbers----especially as the style of climbing in Yosemite Valley is largely quite unique to that area. When there was the initial push for a 'nationalized' standard grading system in the early 1960s ( especially between the YDS and NCCS systems--though both were actually quite similar) lists were created of routes from different areas that were considered to be 'standards' for each grade, but even then there wasn't really that much consistency between the areas ( there weren't very many even reasonably popular climbing areas back then and there were only a few individuals who had climbed extensively at more than one or two of those areas who were able to make such comparisons).
One 'spin-off' of this process was that people who regularly climbed elsewhere than the 'big name' areas, developed a sort of 'inferiority complex', believing that they couldn't climb routes as hard as the ' big boys' ( and back then they were almost exclusively male) were doing, so accordingly gave the routes at their areas comparatively low grades. Later, when they travelled to the major areas and saw how the grades at their home areas actually compared, they often still maintained those original grades as a matter of 'pride' ( or of 'oneupmanship'). I believe that this is the historical basis for many of those 'sandbagged' ratings.

J Tree bouldering. At least the low grades. Probably why the bouldering starts at "5.7"

"How the fuck is this 5.8?" is something I hear (and say) just about every time we climb the Gunks. 

English is a tough language. Fortunately, there are many resources available to help to develop the ability to write cogent, properly structured sentences.

Shaun Johnson wrote:

Index Wa. I thought everyone knew this?

I developed the theory when climbing there that the older classic Index routes are not actually sandbagged, they are just extremely conditions dependent. And conditions are almost always terrible. There's a 4 hour window, once per year, where conditions are actually good and the routes match the given grades. 

Different situation for the newer routes (last 10 years). Those have just come totally unmoored from YDS reality. But again I don't think that "sandbagged" applies since those routes are no longer using the YDS and have switched to the IDS.

Not Trevor wrote:

Nah bro, that 5.10 at JTree would 5.6 in the Gunks!

Sup Not Trevor, this is Trevor. 

As a learning leader, the 5.6's at Custer SP/Cathedral Spires in South Dakota were...not easy or chill.  As a follower they were fun as hell.  Also after gaining some experience, I don't feel so bad failing horribly on my second ever trad climb, a 5.7 hand crack in Seneca WV.

If everywhere is sandbagged, are we just soft?

The Gunks.  I was onsighting 12a trad here and there before moving to the east coast.  I have yet to onsight 11a at the Gunks.  It's not just the grades that are tough, the gear is often wonky, not straightforward, and not ideal.  That makes a huge difference when trying to onsight as compared to splitter cracks where you can plug and go quickly.

I barely squeezed out a 9+ onsight this past weekend because I got pumped out of my mind trying to find adequate gear from bad stances.

Mike Mullendore wrote:

Seneca keeps you honest as does the Gunks.

Debbie and Banana up to gunsight notch probably were 5.6 and 5.7 once a upon a time....but now that half the hold have been broken off....

Don’t know about elsewhere in the country/world, but in Colorado both Eldo and S Platte climbing feel pretty tough for their grading compared to surrounding areas in the front range. S platte is the first place I ever took a leader fall on 5.7 after years of being a “5.10” leader. The difference is shockingly noticeable when comparing to front range sport crags in particular. Might as well call out Veadauvoo since it feels like it belongs in this sandbaggy category amongst other crags in the front range area (but I am an off-width weenie). 

Jim Urbec wrote:

Debbie and Banana up to gunsight notch probably were 5.6 and 5.7 once an upon a time....but now that half the hold have been broken off....

People must have been climbing on them when the rock was wet….

Pat Marrinan wrote:

If everywhere is sandbagged, are we just soft?

I don’t know if “we” are soft, but I am