BD pro purchase BS

Recently Black Diamond changed their qualifications for pro purchases. Part time gym employee? You’re good. Part time climbing guide? Nope! How you like them apples? I actually work full time but was declined because I only have a screenshot of my direct deposit and not an actual paystub. Been a guide for six years, full time for three, have had a BD pro deal the entire time. I know I’m pissing into the wind posting this here and expecting sympathy (can’t wait for Tradiban’s response), but it upsets me that one of the biggest climbing companies is treating guides this way.

Jiggs Casey wrote:

Recently Black Diamond changed their qualifications for pro purchases. Part time gym employee? You’re good. Part time climbing guide? Nope! How you like them apples? I actually work full time but was declined because I only have a screenshot of my direct deposit and not an actual paystub. Been a guide for six years, full time for three, have had a BD pro deal the entire time. I know I’m pissing into the wind posting this here and expecting sympathy (can’t wait for Tradiban’s response), but it upsets me that one of the biggest climbing companies is treating guides this way.

You're mad at BD because you're the one who can't provide documentation meeting their requirements, yet they are "treating guides this way." Their pro deal policy is hardly unfair.

Lose your sense of entitlement and find a paystub. 

NateC wrote:

You're mad at BD because you're the one who can't provide documentation meeting their requirements, yet they are "treating guides this way." Their pro deal policy is hardly unfair.

Lose your sense of entitlement and find a paystub. 

Yep, about what I expected after being gone from here a couple years. Thank you for letting me know nothing has changed here.

God why do I do this to myself.. here we go. I’ll address every one of your points, in some kind of order.

1. far from entitlement, I literally work for these pro purchase programs (and am using a lot more gear for work than any gym employee).

2. I don’t get a paystub, I get a direct deposit from one company and a paper check from another in the summer. A screenshot of that direct deposit works for every other pro purchase I have access to, I’m talking all of the major brands I use, so it’s not like I’m asking for special treatment.

3. Maybe this will piss some of you off (actually definitely), but I’m risking my life and limb every time I go to work, whereas a gym employee is most certainly not. I have people who have never touched a carabiner before I teach em how to belay on the spot before leading 5.8 and 5.9 (and those are only a few grades below my limit!). Or I’m soloing up and down a gully to set up a TR. I think it’s BS that a part time gym employee is eligible but a part time guide wouldn’t be (though again I do work full time throughout the year).

I’ll say you need to change your screen name ASAP before you get any other pro deals you may have pulled. It does happen and there was a whole thread on it a while back. 

Have you tried calling them and speaking to a live person (the person in charge of pro deals)?

What guiding certs do you have and through what org?

Jiggs Casey wrote:

. I think it’s BS that a part time gym employee is eligible but a part time guide wouldn’t be (though again I do work full time throughout the year).

maybe I’m reading it wrong but it looks like PT guides with certain certs are eligible. 

Jiggs Casey wrote:

God why do I do this to myself.. here we go. I’ll address every one of your points, in some kind of order.

1. far from entitlement, I literally work for these pro purchase programs (and am using a lot more gear for work than any gym employee).

2. I don’t get a paystub, I get a direct deposit from one company and a paper check from another in the summer. A screenshot of that direct deposit works for every other pro purchase I have access to, I’m talking all of the major brands I use, so it’s not like I’m asking for special treatment.

3. Maybe this will piss some of you off (actually definitely), but I’m risking my life and limb every time I go to work, whereas a gym employee is most certainly not. I have people who have never touched a carabiner before I teach em how to belay on the spot before leading 5.8 and 5.9 (and those are only a few grades below my limit!). Or I’m soloing up and down a gully to set up a TR. I think it’s BS that a part time gym employee is eligible but a part time guide wouldn’t be (though again I do work full time throughout the year).

1. This is as close to a literal picture of entitlement as I've ever seen. BD doesn't OWE you a discount on their product. You don't work for pro programs, you work for a paycheck. Companies extend pro deals as a courtesy when they believe it may help them make product more marketable or as a thank you for a service related position. 

2. BD wants to see a paystub. A sensible person would cordially write to someone in their pro purchase department and see if there is another proof they will accept such as a letter from your employer, tax forms, something else. Usually, these people are pretty cool about it...provided you don't come in with the entitlement you've displayed so well (which seems like its going to be a problem.)

3. This is literally more entitlement minded blather. This type of entitled attitude gives guides a bad name, too many are known for it. If those grades are only a few below your limit, perhaps you aren't ready to be a guide as they are rather attainable and this indicative of a lack of experience. You chose your work and accepted the risk, you're not saving children from burning buildings so don't expect a bunch of feelings for this hyperbole. 

As far as what BD chooses to see between a part time guide and a climbing gym employee... that part time gym employee will see 100's of more first timers who are highly influenced by the suggestion of the gym employee. BD likely sees them as having much more purchasing influence than guides. 

The first rule of ———— is you don’t talk about ————. 

I would also suggest contacting Black Diamond directly. Everyone has flexibility built into their jobs, including those managing the program. 

Yeah Tommy typical Internet response. Addressing your paystub situation which wasn’t really the main topic of your post. Instead of the real topic which is BD taking away deals for part time guides. And not understanding the situation  

I got lots of skiing pro deals in the past. It’s much more about getting the product In influencers hands than giving them some favor. So it’s short sighted for BD to cut that.   

I’d buy the best deal on skis that fits my needs. I’d ski on them and talk to people on lifts, in the hill clients, and shop customers. I always found skis I loved and helped sell dozens of pairs for getting one pair for1/3 price (discounts were great BITD). So it was a money making situation for those companies.

Find another company that still provides pro deals, get their stuff, and help THEM sell more.

Or if you buy your own stuff at retail you’ll try them all and reccomdend the best… ahem Totems. 

I'm building a big order before they cut off my account.  

Jiggs Casey wrote:

Recently Black Diamond changed their qualifications for pro purchases. Part time gym employee? You’re good. Part time climbing guide? Nope! How you like them apples? I actually work full time but was declined because I only have a screenshot of my direct deposit and not an actual paystub. Been a guide for six years, full time for three, have had a BD pro deal the entire time. I know I’m pissing into the wind posting this here and expecting sympathy (can’t wait for Tradiban’s response), but it upsets me that one of the biggest climbing companies is treating guides this way.

I suspect that BD believes that gym employees are better positioned to sell their product than “guides”, which is the point of Pro Deal by the way. It has nothing to do with who risks their life more as you contend.

Also, with so many weekend boy scout belayers out there calling themselves “guides” it would be silly to extend Pro Deal to those masses.

I called my BD executive friend’s attention to this matter, perhaps he can help you with your issues.

You’re welcome.

I blame the Colorado Mountain Club for this. They were offering pro deals to members as a benefit, they were even offering it publicly to entice members. When BD announced that the policy was changing the club leadership doubled down and sent an email encouraging people to place an order before they lost benefits.  

I can understand offering pro deals to volunteers who are teaching clinics but offering it to students of those programs is a joke. When I called them out for this in a club Facebook group I was chastised and told to mind my own business, "if companies didn't want to offer this to our members they wouldn't offer it".... Well I guess BD caught wind of it and decided to purge the entire pool. 

It's a bit of extra effort for those of us who actually guide to provide the necessary documentation. But I am sure you will figure it out. 

It's unfortunate that the deals have gotten so diluted. Back 10-20 years ago the deals were much better. Sites like Outdoor Pro Link have muddied the waters just to make a buck. I have a friend who recently received access to OPL just because he allowed them to use some of his photos on social media. 

Fight Club rules apply here... " The first rule of pro deals is that you don't talk about pro deals". 

if you have direct deposit, then you have a pay stub.  Its electronic.  you should have some form of login to access your pay/tax information.  

Newt Riverman wrote:

Fight Club rules apply here... " The first rule of pro deals is that you don't talk about pro deals". 

This reminds me of the guide joke- When at a party how do you figure out who the guides are? No worries,  they'll make sure you know!

I'd think it would be easy to work out through a phone call or just ordering gear through the guide company. Or just get fully certified? Get a PT job at a gym!

Newt Riverman wrote:

I blame the Colorado Mountain Club for this. 

The whole situation sounds like something unfortunately pretty typical. Someone abuses a program. And the people running the program institute blanket rules that cut off legit people, because no one did the thinking to figure out how to weed out the abusers while allowing legit people.

Costco has a pretty much unlimited returns with no time limit. Some people would abuse it by buying things like lawn mowers, using them for a year and returning them. They were about to change the policy for everyone when someone at the top said, let's just give discretion to the store managers that if someone abuses the policy you can revoke their membership.

Seems like all of this could be avoided by just asking for a pay stub.

Some states require employers to provide them. 

Do you remember this part on your BD Pro Deal? It's right there in the welcome E-Mail. 

1. Do not talk about your discount, only how rad the gear and apparel are! This is especially important regarding our retail partners and customers who are not eligible for BD Pro.

I've been on the manufacturer side of the industry for (a lot of) years. And personally run pro programs. 

The only attitude to take towards any ProDeal is one of gratitude, humility and true professionalism. 

If I came across a rant like this from one of my Pros disparaging another company in the industry, I would blacklist them so fast, it would make heads spin. 

BD is a cool company, with cool people. I've never experienced them anything but fair. Come to think of it, I've only experience the entire outdoor industry as super generous. It's truly a lot of highly talented people making less than they would in other industries because they love it. 

Cheers all!

:-)

Jiggs Casey wrote:

Recently Black Diamond changed their qualifications for pro purchases. Part time gym employee? You’re good. Part time climbing guide? Nope! How you like them apples? I actually work full time but was declined because I only have a screenshot of my direct deposit and not an actual paystub. Been a guide for six years, full time for three, have had a BD pro deal the entire time. I know I’m pissing into the wind posting this here and expecting sympathy (can’t wait for Tradiban’s response), but it upsets me that one of the biggest climbing companies is treating guides this way.

Are you in a position to close a sale when you're on the clock as a guide? Like, making a recommendation, then walking the customer to a cash register, then supervising as the sale goes through? No?

That's why gym employees (and retail employees in general) have *always* gotten more generous pro-deal terms than all but even the most prominent sponsored athletes. Not just in terms of proof-of-elgibility, but also occasionally in size of discount.

Chances are, a gym employee's pro-deal is part of the larger licensed-distributor agreement between BD and the gym. You can think about your guide pro-deal as a volume discount, whereas the sales pro-deal as something like a commission.

All of this to say, you are VASTLY overestimating your worth to BD, and your continued complaining about it may well cost your coworkers eligibility to the program. BD is pretty well known for banning entire organizations because one employee couldn't keep their mouth shut and accept the good fortune they got. A former roommate of mine tried to leverage his pro-deal for discounts at a shop, and in response, BD banned employee pro deals for thr entire college he worked at.

While I agree that 'Tommy' might not be vocalizing the problem very well, I do think he's got a valid complaint about how pro forms are structured re: the concept of a full vs part time climbing guide.  The reality that very few climbing guides get a paystub every month of the year, despite being effectively full time guides.  To be a 'full time' guide, (something a pro purchase program should carefully define if they're going to use it as a major filter) most people are going to work a lot 6-8 months out of the year in various places and then barely at all the rest of the year.  That makes it super annoying when your pro account comes up for renewal in a slack month when you're not working and can't show a paystub despite deriving all of your income from guiding.  A collection of W2's would make a lot more sense than a paystub.

I know and have worked with 'Tommy' and he's the definition of someone who should have access to BD's program.  He works his ass off as much as any guide, isn't doing it as a side hustle, does a great job, and is an all around standout guide who's fully committed to the craft.  Sure, 'don't talk about pro form' is a thing, but also, in this day and age, literally everybody and their second cousin knows pro form is a thing, so to pretend it's some carefully guarded secret is silly.  Particularly so on the internet vs. spraying about in a shop.  It's not remotely difficult to find evidence of the existence of pro purchase programs online and evidence of it can often be found on a company's public-facing website.