Kilter vs moonboard?

So this year I started using moonboard as training for sport climbing. Outside I generally work gently overhanging/vertical 12s with holds (ie not cracks, granite trickery, etc); cruxes usually have small holds. I like how terrible, in a sense, moonboard feels compared to normal climbing - almost all the holds are pretty bad for a given grade and most moves are hard. I tried kilterboard once and holds just seem too big and problems are longer. Even though it's more fun in a sense, moonboard feel more like training :)

However while I'm usually by myself at the moonboard, or at most with maybe 1-2 other people (the gym I go to has 3 moonboards), there's always quite a few people hanging out at the only kilter board. 

What's kilter board better for? I was wondering if I should do 4x4s on it? Although I also really like 4x4 on moonboard, especially how on the last go you can really feel the impact of getting sloppy, even on easy routes.

Moonboard is the hardman's training board, and as you say focuses more on finger strength and ability to hold bad holds in weird positions. I find that a kilter board is much more reasonable for doing any kind of volume training on, because it doesn't stress the fingers in the same way as the moonboard does. If you find that you're very much limited by finger strength on smaller holds, I'd probably spend more time on the moonboard. if not, and you're getting pumped on larger holds on longer routes, I might do more volume with less rest on the kilter board. Kilter is also much much better for doing circuits, which is really where sport climbing fitness comes from.

The Kilter board has more people because it's more fun and the grades are softer. Like you said, the Moonboard is probably better training even though it's not very fun.

I spent a lot of time on a Kilter board and I felt that it made me stronger (muscles, not necessarily fingers) and sloppier. There are a lot of shouldery cross moves where you need to fight a swing out. And obviously a lot of dynos. The holds are very big and ergonomic, so you don't need to be super precise in how you hit them and you can cut feet a lot; the feet also tend to be big, so you can backstep/outside edge and turn your hip a lot, instead of climbing square/open hips. For someone like me who needs to get better at climbing square on really bad feet, it wasn't the best training board. The holds, while technically "unique" are all pretty one note and there isn't a ton of nuance in how you use them. Ultimately I got tired of it because the board I used was fixed angle, and the only way to make the problems harder was to make the moves bigger, so the climbing got very jumpy, which is pretty much the opposite of the static tension-y stuff I climb outdoors. 

That being said, people rave about the Kilter @ 50 degrees or steeper (I climbed at a shallower angle). I do think if you were a comp climber and you had to train for doing crazy dynos and campus rose moves all the time, it's probably one of the better training boards.

You nailed it: Kilter is fun. Most people I see climbing on it are not doing any “training”. They are just climbing with friends.

Moonboard shreds my skin, and my ego. ;)

And for a lot of people entry-level Moonboard V3 is just too hard, so Kilter fills the gap, with adjustable angles and easier problems.

I agree that the Kilter is less consistent at more vertical angles. I normally session at 50–60°, where the grades are about right and the movement is more realistic and precise. Yesterday I had a big fun session at 42.5° for a friend's birthday party and the grades were WILDLY off (like, given 7C but really more like 7A), inconsistently off (I'd say there was about a 4-grade range for any given problem), and the moves were sloppier.

If the Kilter feels soft and dumb (you know the feeling!), tip it to ≥50° and try again. Really juggy problems can feel like outdoor masterpieces at ≥60°. It makes a huge difference. Hard to do in a group, though.   

But… the boards aren't just about the set problems. They're also basically massive, standardized spray walls. The Kilter is generally positive ears and incuts, which lends itself to shouldery moves and working on grip technique (not strength per se, but like, exactly how you engage the hold and what you can do with it). It's also much bigger, so it would be easier to set 15-18 move power-endurance trainers than on a Moon Board (where you'd have to do intervals). There are also set footholds and it's also almost always put on an adjustable wall, which gives you more movement options. The Moon Board is wonderful for just, well, mindlessly training strength and power. That's not disparaging AT ALL—I love the Moon Board. I think it's great that you can just flip to a benchmark and be basically guaranteed that it's good for strength/power training, which is not the case on the Kilter.

Bottom line, they're different but can be complementary. The caricature would be that the Kilter is good for developing flowy momentum through moves that require a lot of shoulder strength, and the Moon Board is good for developing explosive power into and out of awkward positions.

The Kilter board has more people because it's more fun and the grades are softer. Like you said, the Moonboard is probably better training even though it's not very fun.

I will say that if you do climb on the Kilter, please either explicitly grade problems (don't Quick Log) to something more appropriate or leave a comment. I actually thought about reaching out to Aurora, who makes the app, to ask that Quick Logged grades not count towards the consensus. There's a real functional drawback to the grades being off, which is that it makes it harder to dial in difficulty when you're short on time.

I have a MoonBoard at home and so have mostly used that over the past five years, but recently started using the Kilter Board more, as the adjustable ones become more prevalent at gyms.

MoonBoard Pros:

• Kicker panel with downsloping footholds is a great way to work body tension

• Holds have individual personality, with the various colors and materials (plastic and wood), and you come to know them all individually over time, which makes for a good way to measure your progress/strength on individual holds, as well as to set new problems, if that's your bag.

• Crimpy and powerful movement probably does the best job of all the boards simulating outdoor cruxes, especially on limestone and granite. This board will turn you into a boulderer, whether you are one or not.

MoonBoard Cons:

• Kicker makes it easy for tall people to just jump halfway up the board, so many problems become morpho, especially the benchmarks

• Small holds can be tweaky—as in, real finger-tendon-injury potential, or at the very least a dull, achey feeling from using the board more than 1x or 2x a week

• Texture on the plastic holds tends to grease out over time, though the new set (2024) is a new material said to be grippier and longer lasting

• Grades are so sandbagged that it can be demoralizing, even if you adjust to the scale--hard to make progress through the benchies at a certain point

• Only two angles available (25° and 40°), for the 2017 and 2019 sets, so a steep barrier to entry

Kilter Board Pros:

• Adjustable-angle wall is totally sick—you can actually warm up on the thing and progress through the grades at your own pace, based on the wall angle you select

• Excellent ergonomic feel and texture to the holds—they are juggy or rounded, and very tightly grained, which makes them kind on the tendons and the skin. Like someone else posted, having these bigger, friendlier holds makes for cool dynamic movement, with less worry about injury, and the potential for wild, cross-body moves that you have to control the tension on. Great training for thuggy bouldering and sport climbing, like Hueco Tanks roof climbs or Southern sandstone.

• The biggest Kilter Board (12x16') is basically a massive system board you can come up with very long problems on, to train power-endurance or do 4x4s, or just do to longer problems with bigger moves. Killer potential for variety!

Kilter Board Cons:

• Hard to tell the holds apart, which makes it harder to measure progress or get into a vibe while setting, until you really put a lot of hours in to learn the board

• It seems like for micro-crimping, you are somewhat limited to the "foot chips," which are very small and seem to start at double digits, once the wall gets past 30° or so

Honestly, both boards are great, and I've started to use them both in the same week; they complement each other really well. When i'm just too tired or my skin is too raw or my fingers ache too much to crimp, but I still want to do board-style climbing, I get on the Kilter Board. And on days when I feel fresh or ready to suffer more or want to focus more on finger strength, I get on the MoonBoard. The Kilter Board feels more like a customizable version of "commercial setting"—or at least commercial setting before all this sloper, parkour, World Cup BS took over—and the MoonBoard climbs like an old-school, hard-as-nails woodie where you need to show up ready for battle.

The new Tension 2 is a cool board as well, though I've only climbed on the smaller one. It seems to straddle the middle ground between Moon and Kilter, but with in-your-face MoonBoard-style grades.

I will say that if you do climb on the Kilter, please either explicitly grade problems (don't Quick Log) to something more appropriate or leave a comment.

My favorite is when people leave a comment saying the climb is soft, but then confirm the grade :D 

The new Tension 2 is a cool board as well, though I've only climbed on the smaller one. It seems to straddle the middle ground between Moon and Kilter, but with in-your-face MoonBoard-style grades.

Love the Tension Board 2 - it has the best of both worlds with large holds that allow for Kilter style big moves and cutting loose, and thin holds that force body tension and precision. No feet on the kickboard, so tall people can't reach through starts. And some of the feet on that thing are truly miserable, tiny chips or polished wood. The dualtex plastic holds are multidirectional allowing for some interesting hold recycling on problems, and there's also holds big enough to heel and toe hook. Grades wise, I still think MB benchmarks are stiffer than TB2 "classics". But in general I'm a big fan of how TB2 balances strength and skill. The 12x12 is big enough to do some long problems on, though fixed at 40 it is a bit too hard for me to do longer circuits, that might be the only thing I miss about Kilter.

Prav C wrote:

My favorite is when people leave a comment saying the climb is soft, but then confirm the grade :D 

Love the Tension Board 2 - it has the best of both worlds with large holds that allow for Kilter style big moves and cutting loose, and thin holds that force body tension and precision. No feet on the kickboard, so tall people can't reach through starts. And some of the feet on that thing are truly miserable, tiny chips or polished wood. The dualtex plastic holds are multidirectional allowing for some interesting hold recycling on problems, and there's also holds big enough to heel and toe hook. Grades wise, I still think MB benchmarks are stiffer than TB2 "classics". But in general I'm a big fan of how TB2 balances strength and skill. The 12x12 is big enough to do some long problems on, though fixed at 40 it is a bit too hard for me to do longer circuits, that might be the only thing I miss about Kilter.

Do you think it's worth setting up a fixed 40° TB2 at a gym or do you really need it to be adjustable? We've been discussing options for adding another board to our gym, which currently has the 40° 2019 Moon Board, a 16x12 adjustable Kilter, and has space for one more fixed 40°. I'm kinda in the camp of adding the 2024 Moon Board instead and waiting on the TB2 til we have room for an adjustable frame.

Dan Schmidt wrote:

Do you think it's worth setting up a fixed 40° TB2 at a gym or do you really need it to be adjustable? We've been discussing options for adding another board to our gym, which currently has the 40° 2019 Moon Board, a 16x12 adjustable Kilter, and has space for one more fixed 40°. I'm kinda in the camp of adding the 2024 Moon Board instead and waiting on the TB2 til we have room for an adjustable frame.

At the gym I go to the TB2 is adjustable, but almost everyone uses it between 40-45 degrees, including people who climb well into the double digits. I work in the 6-8 range and only use 40 degrees. You'd have to be savagely strong to need it at 50 degrees. Lesser angles could be helpful, but even at 40 degrees there are climbs that are easier than V3, unlike the Moonboard. Especially since you already have an adjustable Kilter that could serve well for those who need a less intense experience.

If the choice was between a second Moon Board and a 40 degree TB2, in my opinion it would be the TB2 without question (admittedly having not used a 2024 Moon Board). In my opinion, the biggest con with the Moon Board is the inability to set foot holds separately, which leads to almost every problem feeling like "hand-foot match, massive move". Has this changed with the new hold set?

I guess maybe it depends on how much longer you'd wait for room for the TB2 - a couple months, fine. A year with a second Moon board? TB2 all the way.

Dan Schmidt wrote:

Do you think it's worth setting up a fixed 40° TB2 at a gym or do you really need it to be adjustable? We've been discussing options for adding another board to our gym, which currently has the 40° 2019 Moon Board, a 16x12 adjustable Kilter, and has space for one more fixed 40°. I'm kinda in the camp of adding the 2024 Moon Board instead and waiting on the TB2 til we have room for an adjustable frame.

Agree w/ hifno, I'd go for a 40° TB2 over another Moonboard. Even Matt Fultz has his home TB2 fixed at 40° and the guy climbs V16. Not to say you wouldn't get any benefit out of steeper angles but I think the majority of users would be happy with it at 40.

The moonboard will get you stronger. Other boards will stroke your ego 

Dan Schmidt wrote:

I will say that if you do climb on the Kilter, please either explicitly grade problems (don't Quick Log) to something more appropriate or leave a comment. I actually thought about reaching out to Aurora, who makes the app, to ask that Quick Logged grades not count towards the consensus. There's a real functional drawback to the grades being off, which is that it makes it harder to dial in difficulty when you're short on time.

Yea, I think it's worth reaching out to Kilter or Aurora about this. It's so much easier to quicklog to keep track of what you've done that having the feature count toward the consensus grade really amplifies the grading problems and herds everyone into confirming inaccurate grades. It doesn't matter at all in terms of things being soft or hard/the board being easy or hard ego-wise but it is a legit time/energy suck to figure out the accuracy of problems and get the right difficulty for a session when the grades are all over the place and make no sense. 

Heh interesting comments about tall people on moonboard, I'm 6'3" +0 with very long legs, I feel like some moonboard starts are so cramped, even on easy grades, I can barely establish... pretty sure there was at least one V3s I cannot start. In general I almost always breath a sigh of relief when I climb "out" of the start :)