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Crampons (no microspikes) for trail and approach shoes
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I have in mind the Camp model linked below which are quite light for a steel crampon. To be used only on longer sections of rock which maybe verglassed and steep slopes of snow near the summit. No winter use.
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how how do you plan on making the rear bail interface with trail runners? |
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1. Those won’t fit trail runners 2. They aren’t steel, they’re aluminum with steel front points 3. Crampons on approach shoes (and maybe, maybe very stiff trail runners) are only really viable for snow traverses. You’ll have way too much flex for verglassed rock or even low angle vertical progression, and only the beefiest approach shoes have enough toebox structure to be comfortable for more than a few minutes. |
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I've spent maybe 20 or 25 days, maybe like 60 hours total wearing Petzl Leopard FL crampons on Lasportiva TX4 Mids. They do feel pretty sketch on hard ice, but it can be done if it's just a short or low angle section. For any meaningful amount of hard compacted moderate-steep terrain I swap to LS Trangos. Like Eli said, approach shoes eventually just won't cut it. I do like the Leopard FLs though. Really compact and light. So far pretty durable despite my mindset that crampons are consumable and therefore I barely avoid stepping in rock/scree with them. Note that I got mine like 5 or more years ago and I have no idea if there is a better option in the ultralight low-duty crampon category at this point. |
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I've climbed icy/verglass rock with strap-on aluminum crampons and approach shoes. Scariest moment of my life. I survived, but that don't mean it is a good idea. |
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Grivel Explorer perhaps? If you can't flat foot it, you'll want mountaineering boots. Fully universal crampons like Grivel G1, CAMP Stalker Universal, or Petzl Leopard FlexLock can be worn over stiff hiking or hunting boots to climb up to WI2 maybe mild WI3, but you will be in for a VERY rough time on anything close to vertical. |
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I'm trying to find it... but I'm pretty sure Jornet rigged up some carbon fiber insoles and full manual crampons to use trail runners for some fast and technical stuff. Not the everest boot... some other crazy thing. I think this comes up from time to time and the answer is that if you're having to ask you probably need to just use some of the very good mountain boots that are designed for faster ascents and forget about approach shoes. |
Spopepro O. wrote: Salomon had a supergaiter, carbon midsole, lowtop boot that I think was part of the Jornet sponsorship.The LS aquilibrium speed looks similar. Might be what you’re thinking of. |
Spopepro O. wrote: looks like millet has a boot that fits this description https://weighmyrack.com/MountaineeringBoot/millet-grepon-carbon-pro-gtx-u |
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Not only will the Cassin Skimo crampons linked in the OP not work with approach shoes, they won’t even work with mountaineering boots. Those crampons are purpose designed to work with a ski boot. On the topic of crampons on approach shoes and trail runners, I’ve done it. It’s fine, mostly. Actually it really sucks. But walking 10 miles in mountain boots might suck more. All depends on the objective and conditions. If the length of route or steepness I’ll need crampons for is long enough, its usually worth strapping a pair of lightweight 3-season boots to the pack. A shoe like the Ribelle Tech gets pretty close to splitting the difference though and might be worth investing in. Some more specific thoughts: - Crampons don’t do much on verglas. There isn’t really enough ice for the crampon to bite, but enough to slide without spikes. Honestly I usually just come back another day if there’s enough verglas. Otherwise the rope comes out and I move very very carefully and slowly. - The dyneema linking fabric is actually worse for non-rigid footwear than a metal bar. On a flexy approach shoe or running shoe, the dyneema bar will just fold in half. Edit to add: I hadn't seen the strap pattern shown in the video Austin linked below. I'm intrigued, definitely not enough for front pointing, and I'd want to test it in the yard first, but seems like it'd work well enough for short stretches of basic snow walking. Worth noting though that it would only work with the two dyneema cords on the Petzl crampons, not the Cassin or Blue Ice style with a single dyneema strap. |
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1950s steel crampons are what l have come to use with lowtop approach shoes for stuff up to AI3 in the alpine. Many, many, many thousands of feet climbed of snow, alpine ice, and rock. The key points being the low sides with rings, a rigid center bar, and front points. With skinny tubular webbing you can get super solid, comfortable attachment to a running shoe and really chew up the altitude. Have led up to 5.7 in them. Not sexy; they are the best tool for the job. Theyre cheap ( $15) and fold in half and work really great. No modern crampon attachment systems work with lowtops.  Theyre designed to hug low, soft shoes like the alpinists of old wore, and give them stability. A modern upgrade would bring them back into popularity. Until then, theyre the solid answer to fit, function, and comfort. If you ARE good, no one cares what you look like. |
Matt Z wrote: That was my first thought. But after searching I found a video showing a jerry-rigged way that seems like it could work? |
Eli W wrote: Its the Salomon s-lab X Alp GTX and had two version, i have the original one and i fairly love it, really comfortable, very good for rock climbing, runnable altough not ideal for normal trails, its good above -10C temps, good grip on rock(altough not the most durable), has a carbon insole for edging and cramponability(used an irvis hybrid), pretty good toe protection. However u think i should had sized up, because after doing a traverse of monte rosa(100km 4-5days) third of it in crampons my middle toenails got black. There is another current model which is some kind of a double boot where instead of the inner liner it has a removable inner trail running shoes(their top of the range ultralight) and an outer shell with carbon insole, burly supergaiter, less senditivity but semi auto cramponable .(Dave Searle has a review on youtube) |
Eli W wrote: Well these blokes are wearing the Petzl Leopards in their LS trail shoes/boots. Towards the end of the vid: https://youtu.be/uXKvTeTp1UU?si=44meFMvS5hBTEe6G
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Has anyone used these Scarpa shoes HERE They look perfect for snow approaches |
Philippe Queiroz wrote: I think that's the design to go for. Super light plate with spikes attached to add rigidity and totally secure attachment to your shoes. I bet there's a mad scientist niche marketer out there who will cottage industry this solution for some. I have seen a ton of 1950's crampons on eBay and have noticed the same things - lower height on the ring bars, short points, and smaller sizes. I never tried it but seeing the photos here has inspired me to. I mostly want two things in an 'approach to hard rock climb over bergschrund footware' - to carry little volume and weight in a pack, and to not sketch out and take up extra time on the approach. |
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A few related notes: * Aequilibrium speed has a good amount of flex, I'd say they are closer to a low top traditional stiff hiking boot than a mountaineering boot (or trail runner). I absolutely love them for winter hiking, can't wait to try them for some 'mountaineering' objectives. The heel welt seems to hold semi-auto crampons well enough, but I haven't used them in the wild with those style crampons yet. FWIW I bought them for summer mountaineering on peaks like Gannett that are a mixture of hiking, snow, and rock where it can be done in trail runners, but I wanted a bit more extra confidence in crampons. * Carbon Insole - Be careful here, I had a pair of Spenco arch supports that used a thin fiberglass arch (rather than a thick plastic or foam arch). While hiking, it felt fine, but it must have been shifting while the soft shoe flexed. Ultimately, it rubbed a hole right through the inner GTX liner of a $200 pair of Sportiva Crossovers within less than 2 hikes. * Classic (strap) Crampons - I've hiked a bunch of the crampon required sections of the winter 115 with classic style Petzl Vasak. The crampons felt plenty secure, even on lower angle water ice (plenty of trails in NY and NH where streams just fill the trail). This was obviously lower angle stuff where french technique worked fine. Front pointing here and there was good enough, but not something I'd want to do all day. The biggest thing to look out for here is that if you have the crampons with a rigid linking bar (or in rigid mode), the flexing of a hiking shoe will eventually fatigue the linking bar and you'll have a crampon failure. This happened to me at least once a season, I always carried at least one spare bar in my pack and did an inspection at the beginning of every season. Some crampons (like the Petzl) have different configurations where the linking bar can be in a "fixed" mode (for stiff boots) or a "flex" mode where the bar will pivot in the crampon frame. I still preferred the "fixed" mode because it made the crampons/shoes feel more stable (at the expense of breaking bars). Other manufacturers (BD and CAMP come to mind) will sell a specific "flex" bar that's made out of thinner flexy material rather than thicker rigid material. |
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I'll settle in either the Petzl Leopard or the Grivel Air Tech Evo NC. It's something I won't be using too often either so I don't mind being made of aluminium. They are light and for my purpose carrying a light and tight vest-pack they are ideal. More a scrambling crampon than pure climbing or alpinism is my intended purpose. |
