Foster Falls TN- fall?

I was leaving Foster Falls today and met some EMTs at the parking lot.  Seems someone may have decked in the bunkers while blowing a clip.  Heard they were conscious but not real stable.  

Hope the climber is ok and doing well.  
we offered to help with the extract but they said they had plenty of help.  Praying for good news if anyone has an update.  

Hey, wanted to let everyone know the climber is okay! They're a close friend of mine, and they're recovering at home now with no permanent damage. 

I saw this happen. So glad he’s okay. Going for the 3rd clip on I think the 12d in the left bunker, blew the clip and decked. Looked like he landed shoulder first and hit his head and was knocked out cold for a minute or so. Walked out under his own power with the EMTs with a neck brace. Really scary to know he decked from so high up. 

Thanks for the updates and so happy to hear the climber is doing well!!

Hi, this was me. Yes, I hit the ground after blowing the third clip on Eclipse (or so I’m told, I don’t remember actually falling). I was able to walk out with the EMTs and went immediately for a CT scan. I was quite lucky.

I was not wearing a helmet. Had I been wearing a helmet, I would most likely just have bruised shoulders, back, and ego. I will not be making that mistake again. Please, wear your helmet on every lead.

Edit: if anyone has any questions about the experience of a near-death head bonk, feel free to ask 

Glad you are alright Brian. 

Jay Goodwin wrote:

Glad you are alright Brian. 

Thank you sir. 

Possibly a stupid question, but an honest one none the less. Was that 3rd bolt super runout or what? I'm a pretty new climber and I'm just trying to get a sense of what can happen and how. Glad you're ok. 

Harry Manback wrote:

Possibly a stupid question, but an honest one none the less. Was that 3rd bolt super runout or what? I'm a pretty new climber and I'm just trying to get a sense of what can happen and how. Glad you're ok. 

Not a stupid question. Pulling the rope to clip the second or third draw is often a “no fall” situation, even on sport routes with typical bolt spacing. This is because the length of rope that you have out compared to the distance to your last QuickDraw is greatest at this point. The effect is exacerbated if you are pulling the rope to clip above your waist.
Personally, if I am on route and feel that I might not make the clip after pulling the rope, I just take the whip. In this case, I felt secure on the hold and decided to try to make the clip. Apparently I was less secure than I thought.

Edit: to answer your specific question more directly, no, I don’t think that the bolt spacing on this route is particularly unsafe. 

Brian West wrote:

Not a stupid question. Pulling the rope to clip the second or third draw is often a “no fall” situation, even on sport routes with typical bolt spacing. This is because the length of rope that you have out compared to the distance to your last QuickDraw is greatest at this point. The effect is exacerbated if you are pulling the rope to clip above your waist.
Personally, if I am on route and feel that I might not make the clip after pulling the rope, I just take the whip. In this case, I felt secure on the hold and decided to try to make the clip. Apparently I was less secure than I thought.

Edit: to answer your specific question more directly, no, I don’t think that the bolt spacing on this route is particularly unsafe. 

That makes good sense. I have yet to take a low fall but always kind of figured as long as I was above the 2nd bolt that I'd at least probably not touch the ground. Apparently I need to change my thinking on that.  

Harry Manback wrote:

That makes good sense. I have yet to take a low fall but always kind of figured as long as I was above the 2nd bolt that I'd at least probably not touch the ground. Apparently I need to change my thinking on that.  

Certainly! a year and a half ago I reached up high for a 3rd clip, and like Brian, felt very secure, and then my foot slipped out from under me. Result was a sprained ankle (luckily that's all). Was on crutches for a bit. I'm now very hesitant to pull up slack to make a clip when I'm relatively close to the ground.

Edit: Brian, glad you're alright! And glad to hear you'll be wearing a helmet from now on.

Avram Neal wrote:

 Was on crutches for a bit. I'm now very hesitant to pull up slack to make a clip when I'm relatively close to the ground.

Using two half-ropes helps avoid this. 

Harry Manback wrote:

That makes good sense. I have yet to take a low fall but always kind of figured as long as I was above the 2nd bolt that I'd at least probably not touch the ground. Apparently I need to change my thinking on that.  

Every climb/situation is unique.  You shouldn't be looking for arbitrary rules to keep you safe.

I am not at all referring to this accident specifically, as I don't have the details.  But at least in some situations, having a very attentive belayer on the 2nd or 3rd clips (who is prepared to suck in rope, usually by moving body position) can make the difference between grounding and not.  There's a lot of attention given to the dreaded "hard catch", but low to the ground or a ledge that may be the right call.  In general, with an optimal belay, I don't think climbers should be decking even blowing a 3rd clip if the spacing truly is "normal," and if I'm wrong about that, maybe "normal" spacing is not ideal.  

The other factor is whether you feel the need to clip way above your head because of the location of a good clipping stance relative to the bolt....you'll end up falling lower if you blow it while clipping high

Eric Engberg wrote:

Every climb/situation is unique.  You shouldn't be looking for arbitrary rules to keep you safe.

Thanks, I realize that. I wasn't so much relying on that to keep me safe, more just for some peace of mind. I'm still nervous enough on lead that I tend to treat the entire route as a no fall zone. My safety strategy has more to do with being honest with myself about my abilities, not getting ego wrapped up in sends and knowing that my partner and I are very careful especially down low, IE no more slack than absolutely necessary, ready to take in slack/drop to a knee in case of a fall, etc. I know there's no way to make this "safe" (and who would even want to?) but we take it all very seriously and do everything we can to mitigate the inherent risk.

Glad you’re okay Brian. I was the group that had the kids/dog in the right bunker as you were walking out. Scary situation but your crew did a great job keeping you still and getting the ambulance called immediately. I think wearing a helmet is a great lesson to take away because I usually don’t think about helmets in the bunkers and falling into air but this shows everybody should strongly consider protecting the dome at all costs. Also maybe they may add an additional bolt on this route next time.

The best option if you think you are too gassed or compromised in some other way to make the clip is to simply grab the draw and clip. you can't get another chance at the redpoint if you are rehabbing a broken ankle or in this case a concussion. 

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

The best option if you think you are too gassed or compromised in some other way to make the clip is to simply grab the draw and clip. you can't get another chance at the redpoint if you are rehabbing a broken ankle or in this case a concussion. 

Great advice. In my case, I remember feeling very solid on the clipping jug such that I didn’t think I needed to grab the draw. I wasn’t even going for a repoint attempt, as I had only just started working the route, and I would have had no issue with grabbing gear. Sometimes you’re less secure on a hold than you think, apparently. 

Grabbing a draw or clip can sometimes be a life saver but can also lead to impalement of the carabiner through the hand, or even cause degloving of skin on the fingers or the hand. tHe mOrE yOu KnoWWWww.

Grab it before you fall.