Petzl Ice Tool Failures (Current Generation Quark, Nomic, and Ergonomic)

I am trying to compile information on current generation Petzl tools that have broken unexpectedly.  I am trying to figure out what the cause of these failures is and what do with my existing Petzl tools. 

To my knowledge, Petzl has not issued any recalls for these ice tools or made any public statements on what might be causing the failures.

If you have unexpectedly broken a current generation Petzl tool, please provide some information in this thread to help others that may be concerned about their tools possibly breaking.  Lets try to avoid hyperbole.  Stating the entire history of tool use prior to failure and providing close up pictures on the fracture surfaces would be helpful.  If you are not familiar with mechanical fatigue, here is a reference.  

Current list of failures:

1.  Broken Nomic #1

 Buddy of mine broke his on fat plastic ice just about a month ago. Tool hadn’t been abused or beaten on either. It broke when he weighted it after placing the tool. Not the first nomic I’ve seen break this way either, ergos seem to be more prone to it though.

Source:               https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/124597821/new-bd-ice-tools?page=4#ForumMessage-125600383 

2.  Broken Ergonomic #1

Started the day with 4 ice axes and finished with 3 and a handle… luckily my ice axe snapped in half as I was swinging and not while I was hanging on it, and while I was following the pitch. Had I been leading and hanging on my tool, consequences could have been potentially extremely severe! This is the second time that one of my @petzl_official breaks (the other time, I had just sold the tool and it broke with the buyer). Not impressed with the quality is an understatement. A lead fall while ice climbing is an absolute “no-no” so it feels truly unacceptable that such tools can be sold? Your life is literally at the mercy of your tools when ice climbing.
What. The. Fuck.

@vinceiceclimb it seems like it’s a lot one off from what I was told. I don’t know. Failure in all things happen. This one shouldn’t have happened and i have climbed on that brand for 23 years and this is a first for me. I had another tool break after selling it to someone so it’s a second time of sorts 

Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cl1_yYtPu7O/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA%3D%3D&img_index=1 

3.  Broken Nomic #2

 Update: The tool had been used and abused. Probably 1000’s of dry tool ascents and just as many if not more ice routes. 

Source (Picture): https://www.climbing.com/people/a-climber-we-lost-travis-mcalpine/

Source (Comments): Post by “climbing coastie” in this thread.

Holy crap. I have heard the warnings of the finger rest breaking off if people tie tethers to it, but not about the handle snapping off! 

Mine is an older generation. Hopefully it wasn't an issue then.

The tool in that bottom picture had been used and abused. Probably 1000’s of dry tool ascents and just as many if not more ice routes. 

Following, for obvious reasons. 

I really hope this isn't like the BD stainless crampons debacle.  Lots of speculation, behind the scenes communications, quiet warranties, in-line changes without no real notiifcation.  Just to be clear, I'm not speculating about that: I broke several pairs of BD stainless crampons, and had extensive communication with the BD reps throughout the process.  The service was really good, but I completely lost confidence in those crampons. 

With that in mind, I can say that this is something Petzl will REALLY want to get ahead on.  Especially with new BD and DMM tools coming out, they stand to loose market share if people loose confidence in their tools.  Anybody listening at Petzl?

What is needed is some clear communication. 

If there is a problem, the public should know.  And if these breakages are very rare (Petzl sells many tools) that should be made clear as well. 

Hope we get some information.

Also, it would be nice to have some dates/times for those breakages...

When did the failure happen (2022?  2023?)

How long were the tools in use before failure?

climbing coastie wrote:

The tool in that bottom picture had been used and abused. Probably 1000’s of dry tool ascents and just as many if not more ice routes. 

Do you mind if I add your comments to the original post and cite you?

Bruno Schull wrote:

Also, it would be nice to have some dates/times for those breakages...

When did the failure happen (2022?  2023?)

How long were the tools in use before failure?

If I get that information, I will add it to the original post.  I provided all the information that I have.

Karl Henize wrote:

Do you mind if I add your comments to the original post and cite you?

Not at all. 

Petzl NA wrote:

Being a mechanical engineer, I can say the petzl handles are fiberglass reinforced plastic, composite material imperfection can cause this. Composite material fatigue is different from metal. plastic can be more brittle than metal, so the failure can be a quick snap. Metal failure usually begins with some deformation, if the handle was made from metal like most other brands, I would guess the handle-to-tube connection would loossen first before the CAT failure. I looked at the ergo insta post, no follow-up from anyone. If you are worried about this, first, very low probability considering the market dominance of petzl tools; second, get the good old heavy metal tools that fail in a ductile manner which you can catch warning signs during inspection. 

Anyone remember the carbon fiber titan submersible? Similar idea here.

Great theory but you overlooked the fact that the plastic handles have an aluminum core running down the center.

Right, I’m returning the Nomics again… going to get CAMP or Elite tools.

Handles breaking? Really frightening…

Abuse any tool enough or get unlucky with manufacturing defects and it will break, I really don't understand the hand wringing over a handful of breaks in a decade, there are probably 2x as many Nomics in use than BD, Camp, and Grivel combined, it's almost certainly just a feature of the sample size, and most of the breaks were people who use tools 100+ days a year, for years, and in pretty off label ways...

I think that the chance for the average WI climber to have a tool, of any brand, break on them is so close to zero that I'm not sure why it would even be in the conversation, almost certainly your poor food choices while reading this thread are more dangerous to your health... 

Compelling photos, but I agree unless there are more cases out there this is an exceptionally low failure rate given the many thousands of hours per day nomics are used every day during the season across North America, and taking into account the certain strenuous abuse some of them are put under

@ Grant and John

I totally agree with both of you.  I don't see this as hand-writing or hysteria, just an potentialy important heads-up, and a request for more information.

What's the failure rate?  How does that compare to other tools?

We don't really know.  

@ Karl, I suggest you post on UKC as well...perhaps more failures will become apparent.

Bruno Schull wrote:

How does that compare to other tools?

Would be interesting to see.

Also, I would not want to be that “one unlucky outlier”. So, failure rate isn’t as important to me as failing at all?

Li Hu wrote:

Would be interesting to see.

Also, I would not want to be that “one unlucky outlier”. So, failure rate isn’t as important to me as failing at all?

The probability is never zero my friend

John Sigmon wrote:

The probability is never zero my friend

Yeah, a 2 pound Kevlar/Carbon/Steel could be impractical, but some over design principles appear to in order here?

Li Hu wrote:

Yeah, a 2 pound Kevlar/Carbon/Steel could be impractical, but some over design principles appear to in order here?

Not really. There are currently 3 documented instances. All by people who climb more and harder than the vast majority of users with the same tools. 

Your concern (and others for that matter) seems over the top to me.

If this was happening regularly, to regular climbers, it would be all over these message boards. Especially with the number of tools out there.

Hell, the Ouray ice fest was last week! We would have heard of one breaking there given that there were like 10k people gathered there and likely 5000 sets of nomics and ergos.  But there hasn’t been a report of it happening.

Your need for concern on this infinitely approaches zero. 

NateC wrote:

Not really. There are currently 3 documented instances. All by people who climb more and harder than the vast majority of users with the same tools. 

Your concern (and others for that matter) seems over the top to me.

If this was happening regularly, to regular climbers, it would be all over these message boards. Especially with the number of tools out there.

Hell, the Ouray ice fest was last week! We would have heard of one breaking there given that there were like 10k people gathered there and likely 5000 sets of nomics and ergos.  But there hasn’t been a report of it happening.

Your need for concern on this infinitely approaches zero. 

Okay, you’ve convinced me to stick with my as of yet untested Nomics.

We’ve gotten some ice in the local mountains and the time is ripe for their mixed ice Christening.   

My partner told me a story of him breaking the handle of a 3ed gen nomic while repelling off of redman soars. Apparently it got caught in a crack and broke before he could stop. sorry but I don't have any photos to share with it.

I think its fairly important for serious climbers to update their gear ever few seasons. especially if they solo  or lead run out climbs. 

Artem Vee wrote:

The longer I climb, the more I realize that folks saying something like "X failure mode is so unlikely, you should never worry about it" is a gigantic fallacy if you are a high mileage climber.

Climb long enough and often enough, every single one of the highly unlikely events that you "shouldn't worry about" will eventually happen to you. But, if you climb like twice a year during vacation - sure - don't worry about it. In short, a smart climber worries about things, and doesn't give a damn what other people think about that. 

I don’t disagree with you, necessarily. In fact, I pointed out that the users who have broken tools are high mileage, hard climbers. You appear to have completely lost the rest of the detail in your attempt to be snarky.

A really smart climber doesn’t lack reading comprehension.