Raed Zaed: ohm alternative?

I was trying out the Zaed with overhangs and I realized its the angle of bolt 1 to bolt 2 that matters. I was on a overhang that really started at bolt 2, there was a slight overhang from bolt 1 to bolt 2. Setting 3 was snagging too much, setting 2 was just right. For reference, I use setting 1 on flat walls.

https://www.oliunid.com/edelrid-ohm-gym-and-crag-climbing-assisted-braking-resistor-quickdraw.html

New ohm 2 available. 

Brendan K wrote:

Dead link.

Fixed - https://www.oliunid.com/edelrid-ohm-gym-and-crag-climbing-assisted-braking-resistor-quickdraw.html

amarius wrote:

Fixed - https://www.oliunid.com/edelrid-ohm-gym-and-crag-climbing-assisted-braking-resistor-quickdraw.html

Ordered 

I wasn't too impressed by the Zaed after using the Ohm for several years. I am 95 kilos belayed by ~60 kilo partner. We needed to use level 3 to have any effect. I guess there some learning curve to it in regards of belay technique and positioning. A bit finicky to release the rope before retrieving the device - a two-handed operation to get the pin straight out of the hole(s). It worked well on top rope whereas partner could confidently lower without flying or lowering too fast. I would wait buying the Zaed until the Ohm 2 is tested if you and your partner is maxing out the weight difference range.

I just ordered the ohm 2 and had it delivered today.

I'm going to test the three side by side, and just keep the best.

I was optimistic in the alternatives, but I think there's a good reason why the ohm has kept the market share.

Dave Baker wrote:

I just ordered the ohm 2 and had it delivered today.

I'm going to test the three side by side, and just keep the best.

I was optimistic in the alternatives, but I think there's a good reason why the ohm has kept the market share.

Where did yours come from? 

Dave Baker wrote:

I'm going to test the three side by side, and just keep the best.

I'm curious what your preference will be? and why? Please let us know.

Dave Baker wrote:

I just ordered the ohm 2 and had it delivered today.

I'm going to test the three side by side, and just keep the best.

I couldn't really tell from the pictures but does the ohm 2 function via a different kind of mechanism vs the original? Or is it pretty much the same device with a swivel? 

Hey everyone, this is Stephan from raed climbing in Germany. I stumbled on this thread while screening the interwebz for our latest product. 

I'm super excited to see you guys discussing the PROs and CONs of ZÆD vs. other available products like Edelrid's OHM. I'd like to add some insights into the thought process we had during ZÆD's development, so you can understand a bit better how exactly ZÆD is different. 

I've read a comment from Dave, basically calling ZÆD „pretty shit“ because in level 2 it doesn’t brake as much as the OHM does for climbers outside the weight range.
I have thought a lot about this first use experience and it seems to me like there are some things I need to clarify about the difference between these devices: 

• ZÆD was not developed to simply replace OHM. 
• ZÆD’s weight instructions from the user manual are important. 
• If your belay partner is used to belaying you with an OHM and you switch to ZÆD without any changes in belay behavior you will definitely get a different experience than expected. 

Why is that and how can you mitigate this? 

ZÆD was developed to provide a significantly softer belay than OHM does. It was also developed with an active belay partner in mind. Its levels were also designed as described in the manual and you need to abide by the manual in a stricter manner. If you’re out of the weight range described in the manual, the belay might become softer than expected for you and also much more difficult to catch than the belay partner might have expected. That’s why we have these weight values in the manual in the first place. I’m aware that these values don’t have significant meaning for many climbers who use the OHM - it simply works for many heavy climbers and provides safety for all weight differences. With ZÆD the numbers definitely have a meaning, otherwise it wouldn't make much sense to offer different levels, right? ;)

The status quo with OHM

OHM allows belay partners to be quite non-active, since the device does most of the belay work for them and they don’t have to engage in any significant movement on the ground anymore. I’ve witnessed 55 kg women belay intense whippers of their 85kg boyfriends with the woman hardly even moving at the ground, which might be awesome for her and the protection from the climber’s deep falls - but it also made the climber accelerate towards the wall pretty quick, which leads to higher impact forces on the climber. Some of you also mentioned this experience above. This is due to the rope camming features of OHM, you guys already figured this out in the comments above. (is camming the right word here? Please excuse my wording in case this is wrong, I couldn't find a better word for this). This camming feature is amazing for climbers and belayers who would like to delegate their safety during a whipper to a device they can trust, so they don't have to worry about the details of a difficult belay in the process. So don't get me wrong here: OHM is not a bad device, it's super helpful for many climbers out there who prefer a safe belay over anything else. And I’d personally recommend it to climbers who enjoy recreational climbing with a belay partner who is not into catching big whippers.

How exactly is ZÆD different from OHM?

This is not how ZÆD works, since it intentionally doesn't have any rope camming features at all. As another commenter already pointed out, ZÆD's friction is created by bending the rope around 2 cylindrical shapes inside the device. The angle of the bend can be adjusted by setting one of the bolts to different configurations, so you can easily adjust for the weight difference between the climber and the belay partner. 

ZÆD is not designed to allow for a „non-active“ belay partner when you take a whipper, because this is usually not how soft whipping in sports climbing works, right? Quite contrary: ZÆD is designed to level the weight difference between climber and belay partner, so you can belay in the way that we all want - as if there was no weight differences between us and our climbing partners. This means: If a 90+ kg climber takes a whipper the belay partner has to be active in the same way a regular 90 kg belay partner would need to be active.
By „active“ I mean the following: If you take a smaller whipper close to the highest clipped quickdraw the belay partner usually can stand upright and wait for the catch to arrive at their rope end. But if the climber takes a bigger whipper the belay partner definitely needs to become defensive in their stance and their whole movement needs to become backwards oriented. Just as a 90 kg belayer would act while belaying a bigger whipper from a 90 kg climber. Or as a 60 kg belayer would act when catching a big whipper of a 60kg climber. Many of our clients tell us that belaying / being belayed with ZÆD feels like belaying / being belayed with a climbing partner of exactly the same weight. That was our goal during the device’s development - and the belay partner has to act and move accordingly. 

Other differences are the "overhang mode" which offers additional friction if the first bolt is in an overhanging steep surface. In such a scenario level 3 offers friction similar to level 2 in a vertical scenario. 

What’s different in belaying with ZÆD compared to belaying with OHM?

ZÆD is designed to provide soft belay for climbers with a weight difference. It’s not designed to take the active work off the belay partner’s shoulders. It’s designed for sports climbers who prefer a soft catch from their lighter belay partner. The belay partner will definitely take off the ground directed towards the first bolt - that’s what ZÆD was designed for and that's what many of us sports climbers expect from their belay partner during whippers, right? If this is something the belay partner didn't experience for a long time because you guys were using the OHM and got used to that "non active" belay stance, I can totally understand the surprise that was described in Dave's comment. What ZÆD does during this upward acceleration of the belay partner is adding progressive friction to the system according to the level you adjusted - so the belay partner won’t crash into the lowest quickdraw. 

What is meant by “progressive friction”?

As I described above the friction inside ZÆD is generated by bending the rope twice around the cylindrical shapes. The more you bend a rope the more friction it generates. When the belay partner accelerates from a starting position of some distance to the wall (e.g. 1-2m) the bend is still pretty small - but increases as soon as the belay partner is pulled towards the wall. This means: ZÆD’s friction increases when the belay partner is actively moved towards the first quickdraw, helping to catch the whipper in a soft but controlled way. 

Maybe an analogy to other devices we know from the sports climbing context is helpful: Imagine OHM as some kind of GriGri like device and compare ZÆD to it as some kind of tube style device. A GriGri cams the rope and your belay hand hardly has any work left to do. With a tube on the other hand you don't have camming but friction - but this allows for a softer belay while the belayer needs an active hand to manage the rope slippage in the device during a whipper. One device provides a significantly higher safety while the other provides a significantly higher comfort for a climber during whippers - it’s always a trade off and you have to decide which device suits your personal needs. I’d say the same applies to the compared belay resistors. 

At raed we love to learn and improve!

I hope this info is helpful for you guys. We definitely learn a lot from all your feedback. We’re also super curious about your ongoing experience with ZÆD, so please feel free to email, whatsapp or text us via whatever channel to let us know your personal thoughts and experiences. We’re reading all of it and we’re eager to learn about this, so we can continuously improve ZÆD in upcoming versions. 

We already worked on improving ZÆD’s user manual due to the feedback we received so far. Several graphics have been improved for understanding and several text lines have been edited, so their intention is clear and without any possible misunderstandings. We also tested level 3 on vertical surfaces and added it to the latest manual - initially it was only intended to be used in overhanging walls but the experience of our first customers and testers from the national climbing education teams of Germany and Austria convinced us this would be a highly useful addition for ZÆD's heavier users, since this level provides similar friction rates compared to OHM. You can always find the latest manual version on our manual page: https://raed-climbing.com/pages/manuals 

Climb hard, Stephan from raed climbing

Brendan K wrote: 

What’s different in belaying with ZÆD compared to belaying with OHM?

ZÆD is designed to provide soft belay for climbers with a weight difference. It’s not designed to take the active work off the belay partner’s shoulders. It’s designed for sports climbers who prefer a soft catch from their lighter belay partner. 

This is already what I get when my 120lbs wife belays me (180lbs)-always an extremely soft catch. The only purpose an ohm served for me was to keep me from decking, which it did. The main problem is that it locked up almost every time I pull slack to clip, which rendered the device useless for anything but moderate climbing where I can pull slack extremely slow. Sounds like the ZAED is not suitable for my purposes. Hoping the Ohm 2 is. Thanks for reaching out.

Maybe I explained somewhat misunderstandable, please excuse me, English is not my native Language since I'm German - but that's exactly what ZÆD is suitable for, this is what it was designed for. It prevents heavier climbers from decking while whipping softly plus it allows for a quick rope pull in tricky situations when the next quickdraw needs some faster movements to bring the rope into the biner. You can find the recommended weight settings in the attached picture. Looks to me like you easily fit into level 2. My girlfriend weighs a little more than 50 kg, I weigh about 84 kg. We usually use level 2 and she can easily belay me with this setting. You can also see how whippers in level 2 look like in this video: https://www.instagram.com/p/C06qy1wsa-A/ - I hope this info helps a bit.

Have a nice day and climb hard, Stephan. 

Thanks for your input, Stephan.

My partner said something similar. She had to reset her thoughts how to use the ZÆD as she was expecting something similar as her experience with the OHM.  So we are looking forward to try to get more accustomed with your device. Cheers!

My OHM 2 just arrived.  Looks pretty sweet, and a nice upgrade from the 1.  I'll see how it climbs on Friday. 

Brendan K wrote:

Eagerly awaiting your test results, most pertinently whether yanking slack to clip at a high rate of speed engages the device and short ropes you.  

In my experience with the original Ohm, you should be able to pull slack rather quickly so long as your belayer maintains that little bit of slack it needs to feed smoothly, at least so long as you aren't yanking with all your might.  It goes smoother/faster with practice just like paying out slack on a belay device.

I'd wager the Zaed and the Ohm 2 both also have a similar max speed the rope can pass before engagement that you have to get a feel for.

If you're trying to go competitive speedwall pace, there's probably nothing short of a similar or bigger belayer dumping out slack that'll work.

Did you ever try mock leading to make sure it wasn't just your belayer shorting?

Sam Schwinghammer wrote:

If you're trying to go competitive speedwall pace, there's probably nothing short of a similar or bigger belayer dumping out slack that'll work.

Did you ever try mock leading to make sure it wasn't just your belayer shorting?

ha! Aside from the fact that I climb relatively fast, I'm 6'6" and I honestly get short roped climbing as well as clipping (with the ohm). My belayer has been holding my rope for 13 years and is very adept at clocking my movement, feeding slack properly, leaving enough slack prior to clipping, etc. Definitely not her shorting me. We've tried it all. 

Ohm 2 Ordered.  Will report back in the coming weeks on my impression.  I am ~185lbs fully kitted and my wife (primary belayer) is ~120lbs.  I will be using it to project sport climbs at my limit, usually slightly overhanging ~5-20 degrees. 

I used mine for the first time yesterday in the gym. 185/125lb ratio. At setting 2, I pulled my belayer off the ground a few feet on a fall that would normally have pulled her into the first draw. So definitely not the hard catch that the ohm produces. The bit about it not adding friction til the second bolt is clipped is kinda annoying but I'm still gonna keep using my Zaed while the ohm never got used.

Alright used my OHM 2 for the first time tonight.  It fed sooooo much better.  I always thought my gf was a shitty belayer but didn't get short roped once tonight.  Once your lowered it also released the tension so much easier.  I would say it gave me a harder catch which I know is a huge point for a lot of people.  At 190 and Gf at 125 she barely came off the ground on a 10 footer.  So thats my first impression I'll get more in a bit.  

Brad Johnson wrote:

Alright used my OHM 2 for the first time tonight.  It fed sooooo much better.  I always thought my gf was a shitty belayer but didn't get short roped once tonight.  Once your lowered it also released the tension so much easier.  I would say it gave me a harder catch which I know is a huge point for a lot of people.  At 190 and Gf at 125 she barely came off the ground on a 10 footer.  So thats my first impression I'll get more in a bit.  

Good to hear, thanks!

Any issues with “unlocking” it to continue climbing after a fall or take?