365 falls on a rope

How many falls can a rope take? My goal this year is to put in some solid effort on forging through and getting a solid lead head and I picked an arbitrary goal of falling for as many days as there are in the year, 365 lead falls. But wondering . . . what will it cost me in rope? 

consistently check your ropes condition. switch sides of it, especially after big hard falls. IMO a rope can handle up to or more than 300 falls, but if your taking huge hard falls maybe not. check for flat spots, and fuzziness. if you climb on sharp rock much less. 

thicker ropes last much longer in my experience, my 10mm just wont die.

treat your rope like gold. don’t step on it, keep it dry, wash it when it’s dirty. extend anchors on top rope. rappel if it’s gonna drag a lot.

of course when in doubt, cut it or get a new one. don’t risk your life to save a little cash.

Emily Thompson wrote:

How many falls can a rope take? My goal this year is to put in some solid effort on forging through and getting a solid lead head and I picked an arbitrary goal of falling for as many days as there are in the year, 365 lead falls. But wondering . . . what will it cost me in rope? 

Indoors or outdoors?

My partner’s 40m Mammut has seen at least that many in the past 10 months in the gym, but not really hard falls except last week on a factor 2 fall.

Li Hu wrote:

 last week on a factor 2 fall.

It’s not that many, in terms of the rope. As in, it probably won’t wear out your rope, barring some special situations, like sharp draws, rope running over rock, etc. 

My partner falls a decent amount. If you are working a route, and you give it, several good attempts in a day, 10 falls in that day is not excessive, by any means. Using your arbitrary number as a goal, 36 days of ~ 10 falls a day will get you there. He climbs at least that many days outside, a bit more, actually. He doesn’t wear out his rope in one season. 

Li Hu wrote:

Indoors or outdoors?

My partner’s 40m Mammut has seen at least that many in the past 10 months in the gym, but not really hard falls except last week on a factor 2 fall.

If they managed a factor 2 in the gym, maybe stop monkeying around on the balcony? Or ask them to cover the crawl space opening to the basement??

Li Hu wrote:

Indoors or outdoors?

My partner’s 40m Mammut has seen at least that many in the past 10 months in the gym, but not really hard falls except last week on a factor 2 fall.

What do you think is a factor two fall?

Marc801 C wrote:

What do you think is a factor two fall?

When you fall two whole gym clips down the wall, obviously.  Also after one of those it’s imperative you retire your rope.

Old lady H wrote:

If they managed a factor 2 in the gym, maybe stop monkeying around on the balcony? Or ask them to cover the crawl space opening to the basement??

Yeah, probably?

He fell 15 feet above me to a clip about 7 feet below him. I simply assumed it was… obviously could be wrong.

He did deck, but only after hoisting me up a foot or so. So, he didn’t deck hard.

What’s the fall factor? Edit:1/2, sorry…

rock climbing wrote:

The factor 2 police is out.
 1 climber + 1 belayer = factor 2 fall every fall is a factor or two fall if they are not you are a  whinny scary cat 

Probably, cause I was scared out of my gourd a 68 year old dropping a second clip

Yeah, fall factor is 1/2. Sorry.

Li Hu wrote:

Yeah, fall factor is 1/2. Sorry.

Possibly not that either. I assume that "He fell 15 feet above me to a clip about 7 feet below him" means that the clip that he fell on was 7 feet below him at the point when he fell off; so he fell 14 feet and then hit the floor as you took off. So the fall factor [length of fall  ÷ length of rope deployed] would be 14 ÷ 15 = 0.93. If he hit the ground at the precise moment that the rope went tight - ie when length of fall = length of rope deployed - that would be FF1. If I've misunderstood and the fall length itself was 7 feet, then yes - 7 ÷ 15 = 0.47, ie approx 1/2. In a normal climbing scenario a factor two fall is only possible on a multipitch where, having placed no protection, the leader falls and plummets past the belayer until stopped by the rope; in a single-pitch or indoor situation the ground/floor obviously gets in the way first!

There’s 266 days this year which would be one fall too many I’m afraid

No (UIAA certified dynamic) rope has ever failed due to repeated falling. Worry about your belayer and your ankles, not your rope. . If inquiring minds want to know more, google :  Ulrich Leutha¨usser, The fracture of a climbing rope: a phenomenological approach in the Journal of Sports Engineering and Technology

And try to keep the fall factor below 1; not because the rope fails; just because...

To definitively answer your question you need to assess how much “Fall Juice” you have in your rope.  Look at the label/tag.  For example, if your rope says it is rated for 8x UIAA falls then this is 

8 x 1.77 (the FF for test falls) = 14.16 Juice units.  

Now just simply tally up the individual FF of each fall you have (the “Juice Integral” to be technical) until your total reaches 14.  (Save the .16 as a safety factor) 

Now that we’re thinking clearly, to get 365 falls out of this typical example rope, you need to keep the avg FF under 0.039.     This is pretty low.   So to be safe, I recommend you purchase an 80m rope and have your belayer stand across the gym to maximize the rope out and reduce any FF to minimums.  

Good luck.  

Mark Pilate wrote:

To definitively answer your question you need to assess how much “Fall Juice” you have in your rope.  Look at the label/tag.  For example, if your rope says it is rated for 8x UIAA falls then this is 

8 x 1.77 (the FF for test falls) = 14.16 Juice units.  

Now just simply tally up the individual FF of each fall you have (the “Juice Integral” to be technical) until your total reaches 14.  (Save the .16 as a safety factor) 

Now that we’re thinking clearly, to get 365 falls out of this typical example rope, you need to keep the avg FF under 0.039.     This is pretty low.   So to be safe, I recommend you purchase an 80m rope and have your belayer stand across the gym to maximize the rope out and reduce any FF to minimums.  

Good luck.  

This is great information! Did not know what UiAA falls meant?

Though I’m not too sure if below the full stress level that you’d simply divide the life by that?

At least in metals, if you are below “work hardening stresses” the parts made of that material should last much longer than that stress level divided by number of times endured? It seems much higher than that?

Not sure about nylon, nor ropes for that matter?

^ Sorry Li, to clarify, do not take me seriously.  The math and numbers above are correct but the entire logic behind it all was a joke.  

Some further detail from the abstract of the Leuthaeusser publication:

"The plastic deformation equation can be linked to a catastrophe-theoretical model. From the equation describing local damage accumulation, the Palmgren–Miner rule can be derived. The used energy-based approach allows the combination of these models and thus the calculation of the number of falls to failure as a function of the ratio of fall energy/energy storage capacity. The behavior of climbing ropes tested by subsequent UIAA falls can be quantitatively explained by these models."

Ropes can take an insane amount of abuse, I use a rope for a good three years of very heavy use before replacing, or more often, trimming the ends and relegating it to another couple years of gym use. I used to wash my rope but I find it doesn't add any noticeable life span to the rope. I don't even pay attention to which sides I fall on anymore, no matter how big the fall. I step on it, I get it wet, I throw it wherever, I do suboptimal TR belays and rappels. The lifespan hasn't changed one bit. The most dangerous thing is TR solo on a single strand, def use a rope protector for that on edges. Otherwise the Mammut 9.5 is bulletproof for a good number of years, most of the obsession about rope health/life seems to just come from gear fear. A rope is a tool. I have friends who baby their ropes and get new ropes every season and climb a tenth the amount I do. Dry desert/fine sand conditions might be the only element that changes this in some noticeable way.

dave custer wrote:

No (UIAA certified dynamic) rope has ever failed due to repeated falling. Worry about your belayer and your ankles, not your rope. . If inquiring minds want to know more, google :  Ulrich Leutha¨usser, The fracture of a climbing rope: a phenomenological approach in the Journal of Sports Engineering and Technology

And try to keep the fall factor below 1; not because the rope fails; just because...

Disagree Dave. Rope failures, while very rare, happen. Ropes can fail for various reasons. It happens and that's why Mfg's call out "This is a 7 fall rope" etc. They test them to complete failure in lab conditions rarely seen in the real world. In the real world, we often see things that don't occur in a lab. I once saw a rope fail under bodyweight only when a light young man had his rope break while he was rappelling (rock was sandstone).  Result, shortened climbing day with his femur sticking out his flesh and out of his jeans. The question to the OP is "What are the variables in your scenario?"

A) How much rope is out when the fall occurs?

B) How far is the fall? 

C) How sharp is the rock and how clean and straight is the rope when under tension? 

D) Has it ever had any exposure, even minimal or accidental, to battery acid?

E) Radius of the biner? (size matters)?

F) How much you weigh? 

You might get 365 "falls" on the same rope easily if the rock is not sharp. Say you are 150 feet up a route and fall 5 feet to your last bolt where your skinny ecotomorph body and the rope become tight over a phat carabiner while belayer gives a soft catch and it's over soft rounded rock, like some sandstones are. However, if you're on a 2nd pitch of a multipitch falling directly in a wild jolting screamer onto the anchor from 20 feet up on a Edelrid 19, weigh 250 lbs to your belayers 350lbs,  and the rock type is super sharp with pointy feldspar or quartz crystals thoughout, and you never use a rope bag and toss your rope into various buddies trunks, then it's a differing set of variables. 

Consider whole picture. 

Old lady H wrote:

If they managed a factor 2 in the gym, maybe stop monkeying around on the balcony? Or ask them to cover the crawl space opening to the basement??

Hahaha, yeah, I totally said the wrong thing. 

I'm not exactly an "analytical climber". Thanks everyone, for sorting me out.

Ropes fail for two reasons: either they cut/abrade or they suffer from acid damage. In and of itself, the repeated loading of the rope during fall arrest is not a reason climbing ropes fail. Someone gunning for a Darwin Award can try to prove me wrong by repeatedly (mis)using their rope for bungie jumping, but I think they'll stop the experiment due to back pain before the rope severs.