Kilter Board for finger strength

My gym (Movement SF) has limited bouldering and an adjustable Kilter Board, and I’m wondering how best to use the latter tool to improve my finger strength. I already have some experience climbing on a board, mostly a friend’s spray wall set at 35° in the city where I lived in 2022, but the Kilter Board holds seem generally larger and obviously the angle can be adjusted, so I’m wondering about the best approach. I’ve tried messing around with it a few times mostly just jumping on other people’s problems, but found the grades to be all over the place — like I flashed a V4 but found some V2’s to be weirdly scrunched and awkward for me.

As context, I’m mainly a route climber, sport and trad, but I want to do at least one session per week focused on finger strength and powerful moves, as I’ve found this helpful in the past, and I find hangboarding deadly boring as well as probably not really necessary at my grades. I’m coming back from some serious injuries, but previously was breaking into 5.12 sport and 5.10 trad. In my current gym I find non-Kilter V4’s to be at my flash grade or to require a few tries. Some of the V5’s feel too hard, others achievable. Unfortunately there aren’t very many of them.

I think the kilter's holds are generally a little too big (compared to moon and tension) to easily build finger strength unless you go way steep.

A buddy has a training space and has seen reliable jumps in finger strength with himself and clients (measuring on a tindeq) by climbing at 50deg for a few weeks.  It might feel brutal for the first bit but stay the course and I'm sure you'll see gainz.

Alex C wrote:

I want to do at least one session per week focused on finger strength and powerful moves, as I’ve found this helpful in the past, and I find hangboarding deadly boring as well as probably not really necessary at my grades.

Agree that V4/5 maybe not so much, but 5.12 is getting up to the V6/7 level. I’ll take the 5.12 as your current skill level as a data point.

At 5.12/V6 plus, we need to build finger strength in a controlled manner and Kilter board without fingerboard could lead to injuries.

You are at the cusp of needing to build finger strength. For me, it’s especially important as I’m a bit on the heavier side for climbing.

As a former member of that gym, gotta say, use and abuse that kilter at like 45 or steeper. Wish i had when I lived there instead of volume bouldering. Or tell Primo to set more fingery shit

The Kilter is (IMHO…) pretty lame for bouldering above 45*, but boy does it shine at 45+ (I think 55 is perfect…). It really is crazy—all the “jugs” become subtle and positional. Holds you can drag at more vertical angles become holds you can only grip by high angle crimping the seam at the back of the hold. Subtle divots and asymmetries start to become important.

It’s truly amazing in the steeps—I love it. Just love, love, love it. (And I say this having done like 400+ Moon Board benchmarks across the sets.)

To work finger strength, just dip it to an appropriate angle and do circuits on the poorer holds. Focus on activating your fingers and keeping tension from tips to the shoulder; you’re basically over-gripping, but it works extremely well to build strength. Try to isolate on each arm for a few seconds (removing the other) while making moves. You’re not exactly climbing slowly, it’s more that you’re trying to isolate and stabilize in the end ranges with one arm.

Context: I’ve done a lot of finger training—heavy hangs, micro hangs, lifts, isometric pulls, and this. Doing this type of circuit on my 45* woody is the best “crimp training” I’ve ever done. In a long-term plan I think it’s a staple, with either recruitment- or hypertrophy-oriented off-wall exercises mixed in periodically, but less important. 

Li Hu wrote:

Agree that V4/5 maybe not so much, but 5.12 is getting up to the V6/7 level. …

At 5.12/V6 plus, we need to build finger strength in a controlled manner and Kilter board without fingerboard could lead to injuries.

Right, I should clarify that V4/5 is where I’m at right now in my recovery, but I was definitely bouldering harder pre-injury — don’t know what exact grade because my gym in London didn’t grade climbs individually, but I think it was at least a grade higher than my current max, maybe more.

Dammit, so does this mean I need to hangboard?

In any case, sounds like I should go steep on the Kilter Board. Thanks guys.

I don't think you need* to hangboard, but doing some kind of warm up that gets you recruited before your kilter sessions should be in the mix.  I like to pull on the block personally

Alex C wrote:

Right, I should clarify that V4/5 is where I’m at right now in my recovery, but I was definitely bouldering harder pre-injury — don’t know what exact grade because my gym in London didn’t grade climbs individually, but I think it was at least a grade higher than my current max, maybe more.

Dammit, so does this mean I need to hangboard?

LCC grades about one to 2 grade harder than typical USA gyms, but don’t require as much  “cranking”. So, I’d guess my assessment of you being at 5.12 was correct. That and you’re flashing V4 in London where I was only able to climb V4 after working it for 30 minutes at EustonWall I’d say you’re V6/7 in USA. Great setting at LCC, BTW.

V6/7 grades require a lot of opposition movements, just do V6/7 in the gym rather than tweaking Kilter board settings. 

Kilter is fantastic, and I do enjoy climbing on it every now and then to see “where I am” as the grades are about 1-2 grades more difficult than the standard boulders here in USA.

As a finger strength tool, I think it could lead to injuries along with the inability to work your fingers to failure effectively. Fingerboards and grip strength devices do a better job in a controlled setting.

Up to you, but as for me, I’m continuing MAX type training since I’m old and heavy and would love to flash 5.12b within the year…   

Alex C wrote:

Yeah, my home gym was Vauxwall East. Glad to hear they aren’t soft. Great setters indeed. I miss that, and even though they had no roped climbing, I think it was better training for me as a route climber. They also had a Moonboard which is a lot closer to what I’m looking for now I think.

My daughter climbed there. Also enjoyed their setting. It’s a more thoughtful climbing methodology. Requires contortion and things you’d not think of doing. Great stuff!

What do y’all think about recruitment pulls pre-climbing? I saw this on the Hoopers Beta YouTube channel and it looks ideal for me in the sense that it can be done relatively quickly and not take away too much from actual climbing. Is this what you’re talking about, almostrad?

I use a fingerboard at my gym before climbing. It feels so much better than getting on a climb cold.

I think recruitment pulls are great before climbing, but It looks like pulling on a block is more beneficial than hanging on a board.  The flexor tendons are isolated and engaged much more on a black, than hanging because of all the passive tissue involved in hanging overhead.  Tyler Nelson has a really in depth blog about it with much more detailed info.

For your strength levels, I wouldn't get lost in the weeds too much, but make sure you pull hard on your fingers before you get on the board and you'll be fine.

RE: Recruitment pulls — These are great and easy to incorporate into a warmup. The warmup is pretty underrated for getting the most out of a session. Great spot to slot in mobility work, finger training, activation and power stuff, and obviously movement practice.

In 2023 I saw pretty big gains from incorporating them into my training sessions. A concrete signifier is that I used to struggle with the E9 crimp on the 2019 Moon Board (sharp, black, and highly asymmetric) and now feel pretty decent on it — did all the ≤7A benchmarks and some 7B–7C+ cruxes that revolve around it. Even on bad days I can at least do the big move up left on License to Benchmark, which is pretty big improvement for me. It's hard to say for sure, but I feel that the combination of climbing practice and isolated recruitment training was more effective than either alone.

Crimp the footholds at lower angles

Alex C wrote:

Right, I should clarify that V4/5 is where I’m at right now in my recovery, but I was definitely bouldering harder pre-injury — don’t know what exact grade because my gym in London didn’t grade climbs individually, but I think it was at least a grade higher than my current max, maybe more.

Dammit, so does this mean I need to hangboard?

In any case, sounds like I should go steep on the Kilter Board. Thanks guys.

KB grades can be all over the place I have ended up creating my own problems and using rpe levels.Ive not sport climbed that much harder than 7b/12b.Most of these rts seem to have cruxes at around V4 or endurance cruxes around V2...For much harder sport routes and boulder problems (8a/V6 and upwards) I can  imagine supplementary training on a moon board and/or campusing could be good.

hang board is to train finger strength in a controlled environment. keep feet near the ground and gradually load the fingers into a full hang. even at full hang a twist or sudden fatigue means easy and safe bails.

kilter board is the exact opposite - it's to train dynamic movement and stabilization muscles. that's why the holds are big. if you train at your max, it's a great way to get injured because you will unlikely arrive at your max distance at full perfect crimp exactly 90° every time. it's basically a matter of time before your foot cuts while you are sideways and you rip 2 tendons on your way down. that's why the holds are big, so that you're able to not risk injury compared to normal climbing. 

kilter board should be reserved when you've eliminated other weaknesses. first, if you want to get to v5/5.12, you should be hanging 50% of your body weight on each hand. which is conveniently 2 handed hang on a 20mm. they have beastmakers upstairs that have 20mm edges. second, campus board is downstairs, choose the largest bars and do 135. start both hands on 1 and do right hand to 3, left hand to 5. then switch. if campus board is too easy but you're still having problems with moves, THEN move to kilter board to fine tune movement. but until you can hold the holds (hang board) and generate movement (campus board), there's no reason to worry about perfecting niche mobility cases (kilter).

KB grades can be all over the place I have ended up creating my own problems and using rpe levels.Ive not sport climbed that much harder than 7b/12b.Most of these rts seem to have cruxes at around V4 or endurance cruxes around V2...For much harder sport routes and boulder problems (8a/V6 and upwards) I can  imagine supplementary training on a moon board and/or campusing could be good.

They're all over the place at the lower angles, but I've found the well-travelled ≥50° problems to be reasonably accurate, especially if you're limiting yourself to Megos, Jimmy Webb, Griffin Whiteside, the Kilter team, etc.

kilter board should be reserved when you've eliminated other weaknesses. first, if you want to get to v5/5.12, you should be hanging 50% of your body weight on each hand. which is conveniently 2 handed hang on a 20mm. they have beastmakers upstairs that have 20mm edges. second, campus board is downstairs, choose the largest bars and do 135. start both hands on 1 and do right hand to 3, left hand to 5. then switch. if campus board is too easy but you're still having problems with moves, THEN move to kilter board to fine tune movement. but until you can hold the holds (hang board) and generate movement (campus board), there's no reason to worry about perfecting niche mobility cases (kilter). 

This is… utterly ridiculous. The best way to improve at climbing is climbing. You shouldn't be putting off climbing to hang board and campus board, especially at the lower grades. 

Dite Tebe wrote:

hang board is to train finger strength in a controlled environment. keep feet near the ground and gradually load the fingers into a full hang. even at full hang a twist or sudden fatigue means easy and safe bails.

kilter board is the exact opposite - it's to train dynamic movement and stabilization muscles. that's why the holds are big. if you train at your max, it's a great way to get injured because you will unlikely arrive at your max distance at full perfect crimp exactly 90° every time. it's basically a matter of time before your foot cuts while you are sideways and you rip 2 tendons on your way down. that's why the holds are big, so that you're able to not risk injury compared to normal climbing. 

kilter board should be reserved when you've eliminated other weaknesses. first, if you want to get to v5/5.12, you should be hanging 50% of your body weight on each hand. which is conveniently 2 handed hang on a 20mm. they have beastmakers upstairs that have 20mm edges. second, campus board is downstairs, choose the largest bars and do 135. start both hands on 1 and do right hand to 3, left hand to 5. then switch. if campus board is too easy but you're still having problems with moves, THEN move to kilter board to fine tune movement. but until you can hold the holds (hang board) and generate movement (campus board), there's no reason to worry about perfecting niche mobility cases (kilter).

To echo Dan Schmidt's response, this is kind of nonsense. If you look at Dite's other posts on other topics, they are all a bit strangely off, almost as if it is a bot that is sort of familiar with a topic but doesn't really have any actual experience to back the statements up. I might be wrong though, and I apologize to Dite if you are a real person with a solid training background.

Dan Schmidt's advice though sounds great, I'm definitely taking some pointers, thanks! Question: at 55 degrees, is it still usable for grades less than V9?

hifno wrote:

To echo Dan Schmidt's response, this is kind of nonsense. If you look at Dite's other posts on other topics, they are all a bit strangely off, almost as if it is a bot that is sort of familiar with a topic but doesn't really have any actual experience to back the statements up. I might be wrong though, and I apologize to Dite if you are a real person with a solid training background.

Dan Schmidt's advice though sounds great, I'm definitely taking some pointers, thanks! Question: at 55 degrees, is it still usable for grades less than V9?

Yeah I think the board kinda starts around V5 at that angle if i remember right?  I don't pull 9's (even on the kilter) and I've spent time on the steep angles for sure.  It keeps the problems from getting too jumpy which is nice too

Question: at 55 degrees, is it still usable for grades less than V9?

Yeah I think the board kinda starts around V5 at that angle if i remember right?

I'd say it bottoms out at around V3, with a few of those being legit Grindrite-esque problems. There are legit finger buckets all over the Kilter Board, so it's possible to make climbs around that grade pretty much anywhere on the board. You'd probably want to be able to send V5 at that angle to have fun and productive sessions, though. If that's a tall order, I'd think that you'd have to use too much momentum to see much long-term benefit.

Sorry to soapbox for a second, but I think overusing momentum is a major cause of plateaus. Harder moves require being able to statically hold hard positions, even if it's only to setup or slow down a dynamic move. If you don't work that strength/skill on lower grades, you won't have it on harder ones where the moves are inherently more powerful. Commercial boards and climbs are especially pernicious in this respect because, unlike rock, they tend not to punish you for abusing momentum: wild snatches on the board would cause foot slips or flappers outdoors. I would just keep that in mind if you're less experienced. If you're having to snatch every single move or unable to execute well even in isolation, the intensity and speed are too high for building strength.

Dan Schmidt wrote:

I'd say it bottoms out at around V3, with a few of those being legit Grindrite-esque problems. There are legit finger buckets all over the Kilter Board, so it's possible to make climbs around that grade pretty much anywhere on the board. You'd probably want to be able to send V5 at that angle to have fun and productive sessions, though. If that's a tall order, I'd think that you'd have to use too much momentum to see much long-term benefit.

Sorry to soapbox for a second, but I think overusing momentum is a major cause of plateaus. Harder moves require being able to statically hold hard positions, even if it's only to setup or slow down a dynamic move. If you don't work that strength/skill on lower grades, you won't have it on harder ones where the moves are inherently more powerful. Commercial boards and climbs are especially pernicious in this respect because, unlike rock, they tend not to punish you for abusing momentum: wild snatches on the board would cause foot slips or flappers outdoors. I would just keep that in mind if you're less experienced. If you're having to snatch every single move or unable to execute well even in isolation, the intensity and speed are too high for building strength.

Ok, I'm generally on the 6-8 range on the Kilter so it seems like that angle should work for me.

I think I've seen a previous post from you about the overuse of jumping on the boards, and I like the thought. A couple questions though: outdoors I tend to be a much more static climber, and one of the thoughts with using a board is specifically to train to be more dynamic. Also, as a shorter climber (5'6", +0 ape), I find that trying to keep my feet on is either impossible (because I can't physically span the move) or less efficient. Do you think it is still important to try to climb as statically as possible? For some background, I have been climbing for 30+ years, so I do feel like I generally have a good technique base and I'm not just some kid wildly jumping all over the place. 

hifno wrote:

Ok, I'm generally on the 6-8 range on the Kilter so it seems like that angle should work for me.

I think I've seen a previous post from you about the overuse of jumping on the boards, and I like the thought. A couple questions though: outdoors I tend to be a much more static climber, and one of the thoughts with using a board is specifically to train to be more dynamic. Also, as a shorter climber (5'6", +0 ape), I find that trying to keep my feet on is either impossible (because I can't physically span the move) or less efficient. Do you think it is still important to try to climb as statically as possible? For some background, I have been climbing for 30+ years, so I do feel like I generally have a good technique base and I'm not just some kid wildly jumping all over the place. 

Climbing dynamically using momentum to pull into the wall then up or sideways is part of gaining skill. It also takes much less effort once you gain the skill to bump holds.

You can’t climb everything to your peak skill level statically, but if you “style” easier climbs doing them static with exaggerated slow smoothness, that helps you gain more body awareness. If your peak climb is in the 8 range try “styling”a 7 or even a 6.

I’ve seen shorter climbers 5’1” or less static climb very difficult problems, and tall climbers use momentum. Height doesn’t seem to affect climbing skill past a certain grade level from what I’ve observed? Just different beta.

hifno wrote:

Ok, I'm generally on the 6-8 range on the Kilter so it seems like that angle should work for me.

I think I've seen a previous post from you about the overuse of jumping on the boards, and I like the thought. A couple questions though: outdoors I tend to be a much more static climber, and one of the thoughts with using a board is specifically to train to be more dynamic. Also, as a shorter climber (5'6", +0 ape), I find that trying to keep my feet on is either impossible (because I can't physically span the move) or less efficient. Do you think it is still important to try to climb as statically as possible? For some background, I have been climbing for 30+ years, so I do feel like I generally have a good technique base and I'm not just some kid wildly jumping all over the place. 

FWIW I don't think anyone should climb statically all the time. At 185lbs, I wouldn't send anything if I only moved slowly and statically! I'm just saying that for developing strength in climbing positions, it's helpful to sometimes practice statically by doing drills like lock-off ladders, one-arm holds, etc. You can get very creative with the drills, rules, or projects you make up to target that (e.g. what Aidan Roberts describes about his warmup), and so long as you're engaging very, very hard through the fingers and don't overdo it, it should work. You can also just climb your usual boulders, but force yourself to climb them as if you were a much stronger climber, controlling positions you would normally thrutch through just to send the problem.

You can’t climb everything to your peak skill level statically, but if you “style” easier climbs doing them static with exaggerated slow smoothness, that helps you gain more body awareness. If your peak climb is in the 8 range try “styling”a 7 or even a 6.

Yes, exactly, especially the comment about body awareness. Slowing things down makes it much easier to learn.

And I wouldn't necessarily limit yourself to set climbs, either. Make something up that's perfect for you—the right number of moves, intensity, holds, and positions—and just lap it. Or add that positional practice to your warmup, but otherwise go a muerte in the main part of the session. It doesn't really matter what the grade is, the climb just needs to target what you're trying to develop.