El Potrero Chico Safety Info and Incident Report

We are in EPC currently. It is peaceful, alive and full of music and laughter on a Saturday night. We did see a pickup with the police holding machine guns.  To avoid this beautiful and hospitable place will affect the economy of those citizens that are trying to make a living and live their best life.  You can easily get shot in the States by walking into Walmart.

Linda DeHart wrote:

We are in EPC currently. It is peaceful, alive and full of music and laughter on a Saturday night. We did see a pickup with the police holding machine guns.  To avoid this beautiful and hospitable place will affect the economy of those citizens that are trying to make a living and live their best life.  You can easily get shot in the States by walking into Walmart.

>>> We did see a pickup with the police holding machine guns <<<

I hear ya man, every time I go to Walmart here in the States I see cops in pickups holding machine guns...

BuT AmERicA is sO DanGEroUs

If you're afraid to go to EPC because "Mexico is a bad place", consider also avoiding much of the US south which are statistically equal or even more dangerous.  

For example EPC is in Nuevo Leon, where the yearly homicide rate has averaged around 13.5:100,000 over the last decade.  Meanwhile over the same 10 yr period, LA, MS, AL, NM, AK, all have higher rates of homicide. And KY, AR, MO, TN, GA, SC, IL all have comparable rates to Nuevo Leon.

I really don't get the fear mongering from both sides.  Walmart is reasonably safe.  So is EPC.  This whole "you're wrong because you don't share my fears" mindset is dumb.  

Just got back from a quick 4-day trip to EPC from TX. First time back since late 2019, and personally (YMMV) didn't notice any difference in/around Hidalgo. Only noticeable difference is the convoy from the Banjercito/CITEV office in NL to the toll road to Monterrey. In 2019 it consisted of multiple police/federal police vehicles, running stoplights/stop signs through Nuevo Laredo, armed police on top of overpasses, etc. and this time around we had 1 police vehicle leading us and obeying traffic lights/signs. Like all my previous trips, had a great time, climbed some great routes, and already can't wait to go back again. 

There seems like a lot of minimization of a pretty damn serious incident here to justify “but I’m having a great time!” Which, hey, we’re climbers, it’s to be expected, we frequently justify risking our hides for a good time.

edit: vvv Well, that’s one way to go with what I wrote. I’m suggesting that we could both not minimize and embrace the experience of going to El Potrero, if that doesn’t come across in the continuum represented by the two sentences I strung together. I spent a month there a good while back, overall positive. Was there a bit of shit lining the experience, sure, but it was a great bit of climbing with interesting social scenes.

Colonel Mustard wrote:

There seems like a lot of minimization of a pretty damn serious incident here to justify “but I’m having a great time!” Which, hey, we’re climbers, it’s to be expected, we frequently justify risking our hides for a good time.

There seems to be a lot of handwringing over this but there’s an easy way to deal with it.  If you’re uncomfortable, don’t go.  Don’t quote crime statistics, particularly since those reflect cartel killings, not just Jose Q. Citizen.  Don’t tell people they’re naive because they went and felt safe. Don’t encourage others not to go.  Just don’t go.  I vacationed the last two summers in Mexico (CDMX) and loved it.  Never felt unsafe, though I didn’t abandon the common sense I would rely on anywhere else.   Not to belittle what happened to the OP but, personally, if I was in a borderline sketchy part of LA and flagged down and accepted a ride from a low slung car with really dark shaded windows, I assume the risk that things might not go as hoped.  

Just back from two weeks in EPC, been going there for years.  Last November spent two weeks in Bernal.  A few years ago did a 2,700km road trip through Mexico to small climbing venues, the only issue was remembering to slow down for the frequent speed bumps. Before the pandemic spent 4 weeks in Guanajuato each year learning Spanish, going there for a month this coming November. Never have had any security concerns or issues.  IMHO those who do have problems are not traveling "smart" and might well have similar problems in many other countries, including the US.

This is not related to the OP and I apologize but can’t find information elsewhere. Does any one know what happened on Friday in the wonder wall area? Sounds like a tragic accident where a climber, Matt, died? I’m so sorry to those that knew him. I’m trying to find out more information or read the accident report. 

Carly Suzanne wrote:

This is not related to the OP and I apologize but can’t find information elsewhere. Does any one know what happened on Friday in the wonder wall area? Sounds like a tragic accident where a climber, Matt, died? I’m so sorry to those that knew him. I’m trying to find out more information or read the accident report. 

I have not seen an accident report as of yet, but it was initially reported as a rappel accident at around 8:45 PM somewhere on the Wonder Wall.  A guy from Denver named Matt Richard.  RIP to him.  

At some point all the details will probably come out.  Odd time of day to be rapping on the Wonder Wall.  If you have never been there, it is a mostly 1 pitch crag just off the pathway to Virgin Canyon.  Something like Ramseys Shenanigans is maybe 3 pitches long, but it is still pretty late at night to be up there.   mountainproject.com/area/10…

Just got back from Potrero. 

Wanted to add my two cents to this topic as a climber that grew up in South America, lives in the US and has been in Mexico a couple times.  

Potrero is great and that area close to the park is a little bit of a "safe-ish" bubble for climbers/americans.   Although, it feels to me you have to have trained eyes to understand what's going on underneath the surface and that's where gringos (Americans with low cultural competence) are missing the point. 

I saw loud americans buying groceries as if the bodega was their local costco, being loud and obnoxious. I saw how some locals saw them and I saw these locals being pissed by that attitute.  The point being that many americans do drive attention and are 100% oblivious of the place they are in.  The fact that you feel safe doesn't mean you are safe. 

I heard silly comments like, we are americans if they do something to us they would be in trouble. Again, missing the point and really not being aware of where you are.  There are a few things that I noticed just knowing my way around and having grown on a dangerous place. You have a trained eye. 

This feeling was shared by other climbers that didn't grow up in the US.  And I felt some european climbers were a bit more aware of this. 

In my case I would definetly be back but I will be cautious, not drive attention and be respectful of the locals.  Keep a low profile.  You could get targeted.  Be conservative, don't ask stupid questions or say stupid things. 

Don’t think it’s possible to agree more with this. Be the gray man/woman.

Just finishing another great trip to EPC.  Since my last visit the park is more clean with more local effort to make the place more beautiful with sidewalks, trash cans and building improvements.  Spoke to a reliable source about the shooting and their understanding is that the climbers and the truck they were in got caught in the crossfire between some shady characters. Freak accident for EPC.  As someone who tries to be self aware when I travel, I felt nothing but love from the locals and climbers alike and felt very safe.  Highly recommend a visit. Our driver and guide, Milton has worked with friends in this capacity for years and is a wealth of information and history. A great guy. If you are unsure about safety and logistics and want some truly local info on the scene he is your man. DM me for his contact info if your planning a trip. 

Fat Dad wrote:

There seems to be a lot of handwringing over this but there’s an easy way to deal with it.  If you’re uncomfortable, don’t go.  Don’t quote crime statistics, particularly since those reflect cartel killings, not just Jose Q. Citizen.  Don’t tell people they’re naive because they went and felt safe. Don’t encourage others not to go.  Just don’t go.  I vacationed the last two summers in Mexico (CDMX) and loved it.  Never felt unsafe, though I didn’t abandon the common sense I would rely on anywhere else.   Not to belittle what happened to the OP but, personally, if I was in a borderline sketchy part of LA and flagged down and accepted a ride from a low slung car with really dark shaded windows, I assume the risk that things might not go as hoped.  

"If you think that the crime rates are at a dangerous level, don't go, but also don't tell anyone else that it's dangerous!!" What? I can't comment on how the situation is in EPC because I haven't been there yet, but I can tell you this:  If I think something is too dangerous to do then I'm absolutely recommending the same to my friends. Wtf

I think the point is, hearsay and third hand knowledge is less than ideal for making decisions. When anyone posts their opinion based on less than ideal or incorrect information they need to understand that they are part of creating a “fake news” narrative that not only has an effect on other peoples choices, building prejudices and local economies but generates more faff that a reader needs to sift through to make an actual informed decision. This is MP and its obviously full of trolls, naysayers and the naive, but if you actually care about adding to a body of reasonably accurate and actionable information then consider your sources, consider the context and share because you have actual beta.  First hand experience is the most credible source. If we all posted beta on climbs based on what we “thought” the climb would be like without ever seeing or laying hands on it, this body of information quickly decreases in value. Share what you want to share but don't just talk to have yourself heard.