On training for big wall climbing:

The problem and the plan .

I’m going to break this post down into two parts: first, the problem and second, the plan. Then (spoiler alert) I’m going to ask for feedback on the plan.

So, here’s the problem. I trained hard last year and thought I was in pretty good shape. I did a lot of trail running for endurance and ran 2 marathons. I sport climbed 2 or 3 days a week up to 5.11a and put in some good time trad climbing, multi-pitch climbing, aid practice. I even spent several days just practice hauling on my local sport crag, setting up my portaledge, jumaring and the like.

However, when I got to my target big wall climb I was not able to summit.

The factor that crushed my attempt probably won’t come as a big surprise to a lot of you, but was something that I hadn’t really factored in. 

My haul bag.

That, and speed in general.

I actually made two attempts on this wall. My first attempt was based on a two day plan. After a day and half, I and my partner realized that we were not going to be able to summit before running out of food and more importantly, water. So, we bailed. We went back a few weeks later loaded for a 4 day attempt.

By the time we got all that stuff to the base of the climb, I was already half broken. After two and a half days, we had achieved a new high point. I estimated based on our pace that we would need another three days to summit and my partner had to get back to his job. We made the decision to go down and then spent another day and a half going down. Could we have summited in that time frame? Perhaps, but many unknowns were left ahead of us including the aid crux of the climb.

My weaknesses, as I see it, break down like this … well, there’s really only one problem: too slow. But why was I too slow and what can I do to train myself to overcome the why of being too slow?

This brings me to the plan part of this.

One obvious problem is that my haul bag was too heavy and I was wiped out from just getting it to the base of the climb.

The second problem is that I was too slow on my aid pitches and that I switched to aid too soon aka I should have been able to free climb easier pitches.

I thought I was training for the first problem by marathon running and the second problem by climbing hard sport routes. Both of these things were helpful but not targeted enough.

What should I do? How can I train to target these particular big wall climbing weaknesses?

For the haul bag problem, I have a plan:

For one, I have to get a lot more specific about what I put in the haul bag. I’m going to pack my haul bag in my normal, everything but the kitchen sink, style and then actually weigh it! I don’t even know how much my haul bag weighed last year. Was it 50 pounds? Was it 80? I don’t know! All I know is that getting it up off the ground and onto my back was a two person project. This has to change.

The other part is that I will have to train with carrying weight. Simple trail running is good for overall fitness, but I will need to incorporate weighted hikes and runs. On steeper trails. There are trails near my house that I usually avoid because they are too steep. I need to seek those out and do them with a loaded backpack. I think this will help.

Another issue is that I live at sea level and Yosemite is, you know, around 5000’. I’ll need some altitude acclimation in the plan.

So, that’s helpful for getting the haul bag to the base. I also want to look into that 2:1 hauling system that everyone’s talking about and spend a few days practicing with that.

Now, the second problem: too slow on the aid and switching to aid too soon.

Unfortunately, I don’t think sport climbing at my local crag really helps. Crimps and smears, dynos and clipping bolts is all fun and games but doesn’t really apply to the big wall experience. I need to spend much more time trad climbing on granite, in cracks and off width squeeze chimneys and the like. Now that I’ve been on my target big wall a couple of times, I know what type of climbing to expect and I’ll need to practice that instead of the fun bouncy sport climbing stuff. There are some routes near home that offer more of that style and I plan to work these on top rope solo as much as possible. I think I can also do some mock aid practice while using the TRS for back up. More trips to the Sierras for multi-pitch trad practice as well.

That’s the general plan, but I want to take it to the next level. When training for a marathon, there are dozens of training plans available online. You can get 12 week, 16 week or 20 week plans and they tell you day by day how far you should run and what kind of run. For example, on Tuesday you do a short run as fast as you can and then on Thursday you do a long run at a casual pace, etc etc gradually increasing the distance as you get closer to race day.

No such plan exists for big wall climbing, so I’m going to make one- with y’all’s help- ha ha!

There are certain limitations that will help determine the outline of this plan. I followed a 16 week training plan for my marathon training last year and am comfortable with that time frame. Starting on February 1st establishes a target date for the big wall around early June. I like this.

Obviously I will be limited in terms of how many days per week I can dedicate to training. Some elements of the training plan will be all day events and others can be accomplished in a couple of hours. For example, going to Lover’s Leap and hauling a bag up a three pitch trad route is at least one LONG day, maybe even an overnight trip. On the other hand, I can do a two mile hike with a loaded pack after work. Same for a top rope solo session at the crag 15 minutes from my house.

All these elements need to have incremental increases in difficulty and duration over the course of the training period and will need to incorporate training days with a partner. And leave time for family, work and general life stuff. Keep your eyes out for my 16 week plan as I work it up and feel free to post any suggestions in the meantime.

I don't have the big wall insight like others will, but what sticks out to me is the absence of weight lifting. It's a good idea to incorporate weighted pack walks but I'm curious if you do any weight lifting and if not - why not? Squats and deadlifts would be super beneficial for some of the bag transport challenges. Even 2-3 sub 1-hour weightlifting sessions per week would pay serious dividends. Endurance is critical, but so is raw strength. Just a thought

If you are close enough to the leap to climb a daytrip, then you are close enough to donner to try harder climbs in a more Valley style (just assuming you are climbing something in the valley). 11a sport is not going to help you that much. 11- trad will be more helpful. Unhelpfully, the best way to get faster at climbing easy free pitches is to climb harder free pitches and then the easy stuff will be easier, making you less hesitant, allow you to place less gear, and allow you to eat those easier pitches faster. There is a reason the Nose speed record rack is terrifyingly small, it takes a lot of time to place, clip, clean, rerack, and hand off a big rack.

 Work your transitions to death too. If you are taking more than a minute to set up your anchor (on a normal free multi), yell off belay, and start pulling rope up, then you can improve a lot. Also, when your follow gets to the anchor is not the time to chat about how awesome the last pitch was (unless you are done for the day), it is time to give or receive gear to lead the next pitch and get moving. You can talk about how awesome shit was when you are in your sleeping bag, humping loads, and driving home.

The Leap is a fantastic place to get quick at anchor builds and transitions. Get a few routes wired and then work the non-climbing time down.

Also, Hans Florine’s “Speed Climbing” book has a lot of tips on how to streamline your basic multi setup, not just how to be sketchy.

if you are close to Turtle rock, go traverse the base till you can just go and go and go. Will help with footwork and pump management.

To be honest nothing you described seems out of the ordinary - getting the loads to the base is indeed one of the worst parts of the whole thing and wipes most people out, hence why many choose to hump loads, fix a pitch or two, and start up the next day. I think every load I've humped has required the help of my partner to get on my back, and that's usually just the first carry of two or three. Your idea of actually weighing the bag is a good one - water is the biggest weight, how much are you carrying per person per day?

Aid pitches are usually slow, and free climbing is much harder to do than you think unless you have a really well-dialed free/aid/tag system and a fair amount of experience free-climbing while walling.

Might be helpful to post what your average times are on C1/C2 aid pitches. Sounds like you were trying to do a 2-day wall and ended up going at a 5-day pace? So was it taking you all day to do 2 pitches? I would say make sure you understand where you're losing time exactly - leading, hauling, transitions? Are you wasting time because you're pausing every time you step up in your ladders to catch your breath, or because you need to spend 30 seconds per move untangling your ladders? Many speed problems are better solved by dialing systems and more practice, not in the weight room.

I had a pretty similar problem on my first wall, though not as bad as you described I think. We packed a bunch of stuff we didn’t really need (extra water, extra food, extra layers, etc “just in case”) which made the approach and hauling pretty miserable. On the second attempt, I did my best to cut it down to the bare essentials (literally through out like half the haul bag) and was surprised at how little of a difference it made. The haul bag went from close to 100lbs to just over 80lbs, but was almost halved in terms of volume. The biggest logistical improvement for the second attempt I think was stashing the bag the night before, this way we had more time to climb and were better rested.

I also tried to do some physical training and found that stuff like bouldering and sport climbing didn’t really help. My biggest issue was “all-day“ endurance, which I tried to train through time on the stairmaster and trying to go for volume of pitches. This helped with maintaining pace throughout the day, but I found that I was still sore in places I had never been after we got down. I figured the next logical step was weight training, but I’m not entirely sure which exercises would benefit aid climbing most. Bench press and deadlift seem like good candidates, but I haven’t tried yet. I have tentative plans for a wall in late spring, so I guess I’ll find out then. If anyone has any walling weightlifting exercise recommendations, I’d love to hear them.

Hmmm….. it’s hard for me to think that you are in such shitty shape that you can’t get up a wall. You have to be in reasonably good shape but you don’t have to be a Tri-athlete. I couldn’t run a marathon if my life depended on it!
You need to be in good shape, yes, alligator wrestling shape is good (there ya go Kevin) but you don’t need to be superhuman. I mean, jeez, look at Pete! You can’t mention Pete and “in shape” in the same sentence!

How much were you hauling? I weigh 130 pounds but don’t have any trouble hauling the standard 7 days wall requirements. I’ve seen too many 120 pound women do a fine job soloing walls to attribute your wall failures to strength alone.

I think this is a bit more about your climbing ability than fitness. 

This graph is for rock climbing in general. I would ask the OP what percentage of big wall climbing do you think is mental???

(From Training for Climbing by Eric Horst)

Thanks for your input Mark. I don’t think the aid climbing was all that big of a factor in my failure on the climb. Honestly it was a huge relief once I actually started climbing. My gear placements are bomber and my systems are pretty good. That part was fine. Getting there was a nightmare. We had about 2 miles of rather steep uphill hiking followed by 1000+’ of hard chossy vertical gain on “mixed” 4th class / “easy” 5th class just to get to the base of the actual climbing. A lot of this felt way more dangerous than the climbing itself. Bowling ball debris constantly raining down on us and loose gravel over slick slab traverses. With a big haul bag, I kinda wanted to be roped up. The approach was just brutal. I’ve discussed this in other posts, but I’m chasing after a route that is rarely done- probably because of the beastly approach. Sure, I could find an easier approach at WC or El Cap, but been there, done that you know what I mean? Certainly not to say that I’ve done all the route on El Cap by any means, but I’m curious about other stuff.

One climbing related failure that hurt us was related to beta. At the highest point I could reach climbing up a crack in the back of a corner, I looked around and chose to traverse right on a series of hooks around a corner and up to a tree. This unfortunately was a dead end. Turns out the correct beta was to lower off the high point and pendulum left to a crack system down and around the corner which was not visible from my high point.

What can you do? We lost a lot of time going the wrong way and didn’t have the time to explore other options. So yeah, that’s where we turned around and it was kinda related to climbing ability. Also possibly more a lack of beta problem. But that is what made it an adventure and why I wasn’t on a route where I could watch 20+ POV videos of every move.

Definitely want to take another crack at it next year. I figure it can’t hurt to double down on fitness and getting in better shape. I can double down on my aid practice days, work on my systems- especially hauling. I’ll spend more time on cracks and less on sport. Would be nice to go back and not feel like I’ve been run over by a truck just getting to the base of the climb.

What’s the route? More specifics will give the big wall hounds some insight into how to help you tailor your strategy

Bloody 'ell, man ... if I trained like you, climbed 5.11 like you, ran marathons like you, why I'd .....  I'd ....      

Well, that's never going to happen with the likes of me. I rather like that term "Pete shape".  So you have to ask yourself this question - how does someone in Pete shape make it to the summit rather more often than not, and what are you doing wrong? Is there something else you're not telling us?  Here's what catches my eye:

1.  Quit training, and start practising!  Go to your local free climbing crag and practise practise practise!  Practise leading, practise hauling, practise cleaning.  If you can't find a partner, you can do all this stuff solo. Keep doing it until it becomes automatic second nature. Maybe you didn't practise enough? 

2. Go buy the components for your new 2:1 hauling setup, and practise using it.  It takes some getting used to, but once you figure it out, it works well and it works easily.  But you have to pay your dues to learn it in order to get it dialled.  Seriously, dude - you owe us all an explanation as to why you are NOT already hauling your pig 2:1!  Like, what were you thinking??!!  At any rate, once you have your 2:1 sussed, you'll be able to move onto the next step because you have learned how to more easily haul, which is: 

3. Bring enough food, water, beer and time to "win by attrition".  If little ol' Mark can haul enough stuff by himself for a week-long wall - and he only weighs 130 pounds soaking wet - then you should be able to haul plenty more, enough kit to eliminate the notion that "I have to rush before I run out of supplies".  Understand and accept the fundamental truth in big wall climbing - "It always takes you longer than you think it will."  Most failures in my observation are caused by climbers not bringing enough time, so BRING MORE TIME!

4. Hire some sherpas for the approach and descent. Save your time and energy for the wall itself. 

5. Get yourself a copy of HOOKING UP - The Ultimate Big Wall and Aid Climbing Manual by yours truly and Fabio Elli.  I've shared every tip and trick I know in over 800 nights on the wall and 66 different El Cap routes. If you study and learn from HOOKING UP, then you are guaranteed to save yourself enough time, effort, money and frustration to completely underwrite the cost of the book many times over. You can message me on this website and I can get you a copy out right away.  You and anyone else.  

6. There is no sixth thing. 

7. Shut up and climb.

Yours, etc.
Dr. Piton
I went to the climbing gym today, the first time I have "climbed" since topping out on the Captain in the fall.  And starting at the base of the Captain this fall was the first time I had climbed since the climbing gym a year ago.  Today I led a couple 5.9's and even the blue 5.10-, although it was probably more like 5.9.  Then I went home and had a beer. And then another beer.  Because I have to keep in Pete shape.  "Pete shape" needs to go into Appendix C.   

Edit:  Just read your post above that you wrote while I was typing this. Were you trying Mount Watkins?!  Dammit, man ... that's an epic approach!  Anyone reading this:  I have ALWAYS wanted to climb the regular Harding Route on Mt. Watkins, but have not done so because of the approach. If any keen youths want to get our kit up there, I'll be happy to join in and help us reach the summit.  

OK Charles, I think you’re basically describing what we all know and maybe what you forgotten, all in all big wall climbing is simply physically difficult.

If the climb you’ve chosen to somewhere out there by Watkins, well then give yourself a break! That approach is a freaking beat down! Hell, even when I call Max Jones to do an El Cap route with me, (a guy who I’ve been El Cap climbing with for 47 years and a cardiovascular animal) he goes out and hikes up hills with a 30 or 40 pound pack, lifts some weights and reviews his climbing skills.
AND
When we get to the top, since I do far more climbing than Max, I’m less beat than he is. That’s just the way it is.

So, all in all, ya just have to get better at all of it. There is no set plan.

Give me call, I’ll line you out with more than I can or care to write here. 

Damn! This post is bringing out all the big guns of MP! Pete: I like everything you had to say and I do want to get a copy of your book. Just one thing though: if you hire people to haul your stuff to the base, um, did you really climb the route, like, unsupported? Just saying, but if the hardest part of the climb is getting all your shit to the base and you hire somebody to do that part…

And yes, I definitely need to get on that 2:1 hauling system.

And Mark, I will DM you.

Finally, progress report: got out yesterday for a 4 mile hike with a 45 pound pack. Followed this with a couple long sport climbs 5.10b and 5.10c.

Make two trips. It's not that far.

The Sentinel approach is no joke. I remember being kinda gripped walking on narrow grassy hummocks above the edge on the way to the Steck Salathe. So kudos to you for getting wall gear up there.

I'd recommend two humps each with his and hers haul bags. Lighter bags will make the approach and walk off (also dreadful) less sketchy and more equitable as you can split the load evenly. Try to choose bags or bag/pack combo that carries well.. that has come up as a "passionate" topic in this forum recently!

Stashing a water cache on top would yield some additional security and take the edge off.

I'm solely in this for the lulz i.e. have fun and I like my training to reflect that too. Maybe try some snow climbing in the Sierras this spring. Langley NE couloir or Shasta are my seasonal favorites. As for rock, I prescribe a few laps on the classics at Arch Rock and the NE Butt of Higher to get in the mood!

Why don’t you “train” for your Target BigWall by ticking off (or Re-Tiicking) a bunch of Easy less obscure Walls?

SFWC, Skull Queen, Southern Man, The Prow, WFLT- all have reasonable approaches and can be done in (conservatively) a long weekend.. 

doing some Trades would make you faster at climbing- let you figure out your 2:1 develop specific fitness and let you edit your kit down to the essentials.. 

then if you still want to hike up to Sentinel to do your Forgotten Route- at least you’ll have the tools to send it.. 

in the meantime- get a weight vest.. a 45lb pack carries like a 30lb Haulbag- but my 60lb Vest carries like a 100lb haulbag.. with no hip belt and  the way it rides high- a Vest seriously develops your shoulders and core in a way a suspension pack can not.. 

Concur with Quinn. 

I got your email Charles and will reply tomorrow!

I don’t know what all this training crap is.  I routinely go from the couch to the captain. I love the endless work, that’s my bag baby…     I’m only 155lbs post treatment and I can haul easier than Mark, hell I just hauled his ass up Sea of Dreams after a two year hiatus….   haha haha.    
Im just being an ass cause I’m bored at work right now.
Approaches absolutely blow, I hate them. Do everything you can to get as much help with the humping as you can. Anyone who gives you shit about getting help to the base so you can have more fun on the route can get fucked.
But that’s just my salty opinion.  

Lots of great feedback! Thanks everyone!

Starting to develop a training plan:

Monday- rest day or easy TRS

Tuesday- short trail run w/ weighted vest 

Wednesday- work out run 6-10 miles

Thursday- rest day or easy TRS

Friday- longer trail run

Saturday/ Sunday- climbing aid and systems practice, longer multi-pitch trad.

Some explanations. I’m older (55) so rest and recovery is pretty important, but I also believe that cross-training allows you to work different muscle groups on rest days. I can do easy TRS close to home and get in laps on harder sport climbs for technique and upper body strength.

The rucking will help with both my trail running and my big wall approach humping. No need to ruck more than a couple miles because that it what I’m looking at for my target climb. I would like to gradually increase the weight and try to find a trail that approximates the approach of my target climb aka 1000+’ in under 2 miles.

The longer trail runs will probably max out in mid-April as I’ve signed up for a 50K run early-May. As I taper for that race, I’ll increase my trad climbing and aid practice.

After the race, I will focus 100% on climbing fitness, skills training and other preparedness. Looking to get on the big climb early-June.

Still no weight training, but I hope to add in calisthenics and hang board sessions.

Charles Winstead wrote:

Tuesday- short trail run w/ weighted vest 

Running with a vest may not be a good idea.

Do you have any hill/mountain nearby?
Classic exercise is a "weighted climb" when you (put e.g. 30 lb of water in your backpack, hike up, pour water over there, hike down) x N.

If you have a highrise building nearby, you can hike stairs up and take elevator down.

Running or hiking down with a heavy backpack can lead yo injures.

Why no weight training? Moving an 80 pound haul bag is going to feel easier if you regularly move a bar with twice or more weight on it.

Yes, good ideas!

I live at the foot of Mt Tam and can hike to the summit in (not exactly sure because I haven’t done it yet and don’t have a gps measurement) around 4-5 miles. I like the idea of hiking up with water and then pouring it out to hike down w/o weight. I said run earlier, but I really meant  fast hike.

As for the why of no weight training- I just haven’t figured out how to work that into my routine. Do I cut out a trail run? Spend one day less climbing? Would hang board training, push ups, planks and rucking give me all the same benefits? Also, not stoked about paying out for a gym membership- prices are insane around here. Still working out the details and appreciate all the feedback.