Geological time includes now...

Cherokee Nunes wrote:

I do not agree. Human-caused erosion is geologic erosion too, as a geologic record of the event is recorded in time. Human-caused extinction events are also recorded in the geologic record. Highway cuts, part of the geologic record. Etc. etc. etc.

So you do agree, you just have little idea of what the Anthropocene is.

George Bracksieck wrote:

The name of this thread is “Geologic Time Includes Now.” We’re in the Anthropocene now.

Yup, I’m not understanding your point though. A rockfall in Yosemite likely wouldn’t fall under human induced, nor would a single rock fall event of that scale be notable on the GTS. Multiple species of animals being hunted into extinction and/or future effects of something like fracking or drilling could be.

Ancient Art falling down, or other common small scale weather/erosion phenomena, are not events that show up in “Geologic Time” (unless you consider quite literally everything as “Geologic Time”) nor would they up on the GTS, on which “geologic time” would presumably be measured on. The GTS is primarily designated for major geologic events such as mass extinctions, large lithospheric changes, meteor impacts, etc.

The examples being provided are all great for the purpose of the thread, but they aren’t necessarily things that are part of “geologic time” unless you are considering it to be all of time since the inception of Earth. In which case the amount of time humans have even been on Earth, is still barely measurable when put to scale.  

It’s all purely semantics, so I will just carry on, and for the purpose of this thread, and following suit and will say the route DWoods put up in Borneo that collapsed. 

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

So you do agree, you just have little idea of what the Anthropocene is.

Yup, I’m not understanding your point though. A rockfall in Yosemite likely wouldn’t fall under human induced, nor would a single rock fall event of that scale be notable on the GTS. Multiple species of animals being hunted into extinction and/or future effects of something like fracking or drilling could be.

Ancient Art falling down, or other common small scale weather/erosion phenomena, are not events that show up in “Geologic Time” (unless you consider quite literally everything as “Geologic Time”) nor would they up on the GTS, on which “geologic time” would presumably be measured on. The GTS is primarily designated for major geologic events such as mass extinctions, large lithospheric changes, meteor impacts, etc.

The examples being provided are all great for the purpose of the thread, but they aren’t necessarily things that are part of “geologic time” unless you are considering it to be all of time since the inception of Earth. In which case the amount of time humans have even been on Earth, is still barely measurable when put to scale.  

It’s all purely semantics, so I will just carry on, and for the purpose of this thread, and following suit and will say the route DWoods put up in Borneo that collapsed. 

The GTS does indeed measure all of time since what is defined as the beginning of our planet (~4.6Ba). Every beat of my heart can be marked on the GTS. Every oscillation in an unstable U235 nucleus can be marked on the GTS. Reading the record may require a strong magnifyer!

Bale wrote:

I know a guy who's climbed at least three routes before “alteration”: Jah Man, Cobra, and something in Yosemite I can’t recall. I did a short climb that started with a pedestal that a couple years later was a rubble heap. Big block fell off Goodro’s Wall in BCC last year I think. I took my young son on a hike past Wall Arch that’s no longer with us. Yeah, “geologic time includes now” - Gerry Roach. 

I fit that bill lol, maybe you were talking to me. The third would be RNW on Half Dome about a month before a couple pitches fell off. Crazy thing is, all these were less 60 days before they went through "alteration".

George Bracksieck wrote:

The GTS does indeed measure all of time since what is defined as the beginning of our planet (~4.6Ba). Every beat of my heart can be marked on the GTS. Every oscillation in an unstable U235 nucleus can be marked on the GTS. Reading the record may require a strong magnifyer!

Geologic Time is one of the hardest things in all of geology to conceptualize. I believe there was even a study done that that suggested that humans may not even be able to cognitively fully understand the immensity of geologic time. With that said, I would strongly argue that a single heartbeat would not be “marked” on the GTS…Even the entirety of yours, mine, or any individual’s life would not be “marked” on the geologic time scale, let alone a single heartbeat.

As I said before, things recorded and “marked” on the GTS are major geological events (the crust forming, meteor hitting causing mass extinction). Your heartbeat or a hold breaking on your favorite climb are not things that are important or measurable when it comes to geologic time. Even using the strongest of magnifier. An example of a major geologic event being “marked” in geologic time within our lifetimes would be something like the eruption of Mt. St. Helen’s. 

To put it into better perspective, if the entire existence of Earth, starting at its genesis, was represented as a 24hr day with The Big Bang (or whatever anyone wants to call it) being the instant the day starts and present day being the day’s end, the first humans would not even show up until after 11:58 pm. Which makes the anthropological effect on this Earth even more impressive tbh. Either way,  I am fully aware this is semantics and I am just arguing verbiage. Carry on! 

I haven't experienced anything like this in my climbing, but I've been dissuaded from climbing Free Ride on Wallface, NY because some sketchy rock fall happened and appears destined to happen again, some horrifying photos on the route page.

I am amazed that more climbers aren't injured or killed in large-scale rockfall events because they seem to be so common. I think dying in some uncontrollable large rock fall is my biggest climbing fear. When exactly will the Ozone buttress collapse and just form more boulders along the carriage road?

Trevor 

Geologic Time is, IMHO, almost the most difficult concept to understand.

Same with climate. It’s not the weather.

Thank God our Leaders haven’t found a way to “tax” us yet….. 

“We must stop continental drift!!!” “We only have 20 years before California goes into the Pacific”

Not Not MP Admin wrote:

Geologic Time is one of the hardest things in all of geology to conceptualize. I believe there was even a study done that that suggested that humans may not even be able to cognitively fully understand the immensity of geologic time. With that said, I would strongly argue that a single heartbeat would not be “marked” on the GTS…Even the entirety of yours, mine, or any individual’s life would not be “marked” on the geologic time scale, let alone a single heartbeat.

As I said before, things recorded and “marked” on the GTS are major geological events (the crust forming, meteor hitting causing mass extinction). Your heartbeat or a hold breaking on your favorite climb are not things that are important or measurable when it comes to geologic time. Even using the strongest of magnifier. An example of a major geologic event being “marked” in geologic time within our lifetimes would be something like the eruption of Mt. St. Helen’s. 

To put it into better perspective, if the entire existence of Earth, starting at its genesis, was represented as a 24hr day with The Big Bang (or whatever anyone wants to call it) being the instant the day starts and present day being the day’s end, the first humans would not even show up until after 11:58 pm. Which makes the anthropological effect on this Earth even more impressive tbh. Either way,  I am fully aware this is semantics and I am just arguing verbiage. Carry on! 

That "S" is the key point. Scale. Geology isn't -always-the nothing ever happens, or takes forever to happen thing we puny blips called humans can't grasp. And honestly, the scale of the geology, apart from time, is a big part of what draws us to these places we love. An in your face mountain range, totally unconcerned with the human scale, size, time, any of it? We need that, somehow. Like stars, bitd when we could see night skies, or big weather.

But....

Geology is going on, nonstop, every minute. 

Once in awhile?

That scale, and ours, intersect. Even that rock we yell "rock!" for while climbing, or our footsteps lowering the base of a boulder problem, is a tiny change in the environs we love. 

But then, geology takes a turn, by itself. And....

Wow.

Yes, what we may see may be insignificant, but on a geological time scale?

Okay still insignificant, most of the time.

But on the human history time scale? Noticeable.

And maybe, just maybe?

To the tiny little lizard you share bouldering with?

That hold that broke in your hand may have been his favorite place to flare his neck, flex some pushups, show off his blueness, and impress the bros....

I grew up on the Columbia river, with volcanoes visible out the windows. The Klickitat people have stories, old stories. One of them involves two brothers wreaking havoc on the landscape, hurling rocks and fire at each other, all over a beautiful maiden.

That fight between the volcanoes in my backyard?

Is why Mt. St. Helens isn't visible from my house. 

She was hidden away, to stop the fighting.

Human scale. Geologic scale.

Best, Helen

Personally, I'm pretty sure I am fossilizing. 

Too me it is clear that 'geologic time' is occurring now, as it does constantly. It involves not only the big events, though they are definitely impressive when they occur, but also the ongoing minuscule things that are always happening. Mountain ranges are eroded one grain at a time, and it is this slow process rather than the occasional big landslide or rockfall event that plays the most important long-term role in that geological process. Are such events noted in academic geological studies---of course not, but that doesn't mean that they aren't a crucial aspect in the on-going changes on our planet.

Bolting Karen wrote:

I fit that bill lol, maybe you were talking to me. The third would be RNW on Half Dome about a month before a couple pitches fell off. Crazy thing is, all these were less 60 days before they went through "alteration".

Indeed I was! Thanks BK. 

Alan Rubin wrote:

Too me it is clear that 'geologic time' is occurring now, as it does constantly. It involves not only the big events, though they are definitely impressive when they occur, but also the ongoing minuscule things that are always happening. Mountain ranges are eroded one grain at a time, and it is this slow process rather than the occasional big landslide or rockfall event that plays the most important long-term role in that geological process. Are such events noted in academic geological studies---of course not, but that doesn't mean that they aren't a crucial aspect in the on-going changes on our planet.

The problem is that Geologic time and “Human time” are not measured the same. To humans, we measure in seconds, minutes, hours. That (virtually) does not exist in geologic time. The scales in which the two are measured are so different it is, quite literally, inconceivable to compare the two. This is the only issue I have with describing these events within the constraints of “geologic time”. They are irrelevant and unmeasurable within geologic time, whereas they are memorable and even important events within “Human time”. 

I'm going to ignore the semantics debate going on above and share some stuff instead.

A large portion of silverado mine fell off a few years before I started climbing and it seems like another large block may fall sometime soon as well (tried to climb right corner a while ago but got sketched out by a giant detached block and decided to bail)

https://www.mountainproject.com/v/106092932

Also, I remember hearing about a massive rockfall happening in the serrias or possibly Colorado where a 6-ish pitch climb just fell off in its entirety a year or 2 ago, but I can't for the life of me remember what the formation was called (I want to say it was regarded as one the all time most classic alpine climbs in the states as well). Does anyone remember the formation I'm thinking of?

Not a year or 2 ago, more like a couple of decades ago, but a large part of the classic Notthcutt-Carter Route on Hallett Peak in RMNP collapsed.

Alan Rubin wrote:

Not a year or 2 ago, more like a couple of decades ago, but a large part of the classic Notthcutt-Carter Route on Hallett Peak in RMNP collapsed.

I think that was in 1999. We went up to climb that route a couple of days after the rockfall. We'd heard some rumors, but nothing to extent of the massive fresh boulder field, a hundred feet across, that we found at the base of the route. Two whole pitches (the first two) and a wide swath around them had fallen off. It was mind-blowing! We tucked our tails in and headed over to the Culp-Bossier. 

I finally came back to climb the Northcutt-Carter in 2018, starting on the route to the right and traversing in just above the rock scar (there is also a new direct start through the rock scar). The boulder field was still there and still looked pretty fresh. When you belay and begin the traverse for the traditional third pitch, your feet are just above the overhanging, white-toothed maw of the scar, and it feels like wall you're on might be next. I climbed as fast as I could through there. 

MattH wrote:

Some day soon, the encroaching erosion below Endless Bummer Rock will finally reach the base and the whole thing will tumble into the ocean, taking with it two of the coolest sport climbs in the country. 

Well, it finally happened (3 months after my prediction). From photos circulating online it seems that the top half of the boulder fell off (at/above the finish mantle, it would seem), which means the rest is unstable enough it's probably curtains for those routes even if the main face wasn't affected. RIP to the best power endurance climbing in the country. Surf Safari, we hardly knew ye

Still hoping it's a delayed April 1st joke (the claim that the rock tipped over has been a recurring April 1st joke for ages).