Vapor Barrier Socks? Plastic Bags? Keeping the dogs warm in chilly temps!
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I’ve seen some people putting plastic bags (like the bags for your produce) on their feet to deal with cold temps. I know Rab also makes a vapor barrier sock that some reviews were written on. I’m wondering what’s y’all’s experience is with vapor barrier socks/bags in keeping your feet warm in light ski or mtneering boots on ice or other mtn days when it’s gets real cold (sub 0°F). Cheers and thanks for any beta! |
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I used to have VBL. They were chouinard or patagonia I think. It wasn't cold enough to need them. However, I didn't feel that my liner socks and feet were soaked and pruned. I'm in much colder situations now, and I'm wearing Acrux boots with a removable liner. Thin socks. Don't get too sweaty, and things dry out pretty well anyway. My big change in attitude about socks is to wear thin socks. I used to oversize everything, wear liner socks and thick Thor-lo padded stuff. So sloppy. So in my opinion, I would suggest good modern boots fitted for thinner socks. Unless you're going to almost guaranteed frostbite territory. |
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Steve McGee wrote: Thanks Steve! I have some LaSpo G-techs that I absolutely love. Thinking about getting a warmer boot soon as well, but for now would prefer not to. Fit's great with a thin sock, but can also wear with one a little thicker on the cold days as my feet tend to shrink a bit when they're cold. Just thinking about managing with what I have. Might try out some VB socks soon |
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I have experienced excellent results with homemade VBL socks, but only in the context of activities that provide consistent exertion. Once I stopped moving and generating heat, the warm and wet microclimate created within the VBL became cold and wet. I found that I needed to limit breaks to five minutes. I never used VBL's in ice climbing, because this seemed like it would become problematic when belaying. Fatbiking and winter peak hikes down to -37F, it was excellent. |
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Have you thought of trying the outdoor research x gaiters? I have not tried them myself but they seem like they would work better than vapor barrier socks. |
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Alex Headley wrote: Yeah I mean a G-Tech is never gonna feel warm sub-zero, it’s not made for that. |
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Great to see this post--I was recently contemplating the same thing. I ice climb primarily in Phantom Techs. Yes, they can be cold! I'm hoping the latest version will be a bit warmer as suggested. I'm been folowwing the new Phanton Tech thread for more user feedback. One trick I have found is to hike in wearing one pair of socks, and then switch to a new pair of socks at the base of a climb. It's always fun to sit down while gearing up and take off your boots. Bare feet in winter! But it feels great to let the feet dry and put on fresh socks. Your feet definitely stay warmer. But that doesn't completely solve the problem, because if you've had an approach where you've worked hard, some sweat will have soaked into the boots, and if the boots are wet inside they will eventually get cold. New socks can forestall the cold but not completely eliminate it. Hence the idea of vapor barrier socks. What I would like to try is 1) Hike in with vapor barrier socks, 2) Change to dry socks at the base of the climb. Where can I find vapor barrier socks? How can I make my own? Ideas?? The other option is heated socks. Several guides I know swear by them. They wear light, technical, almost summer boots for hard ice and mixed climbing in winter, and use heated socks to keep the feet warm. It feels like cheating, but what they hell do I have to prove? Climbing ice with warm comfortable feet would be so much more fun, and so much safer. |
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I’ve got vapor- barrier socks and they work great in certain conditions. I would say try the produce bag idea to see if you like them. |
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I have used plastic bread bags, similar to produce bags, with great results. I generally have sweaty feet so this ensures my sock and boot insulation actually stays dry. I wear a very thin liner sock, plastic bag, 2nd sock (whatever size to fit your boots appropriately). The inner sock will become damp, but not nearly as wet as you think it will. And in the meantime I have much warmer feet since there is no evaporative heat loss. If overnighting it's much easier to dry out the liner sock compared to drying out the overstock and the boots. Heated socks are also lovely. You can do both! |
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In the Korean War, the new vapor barrier boots saved a lot of feet. The same boot was preferred decades later for those working AK winters, myself included. In 1976, Bill Prater, developer of aluminum snowshoe, Sherpa, used the boots, with added vibrams, to the summit on our Denali climb. During the winter on the North Coast of AK, I became a hero to my boss by convincing him to use 'bread sacks' in his boots, "First time I've had warm feet." Vapor barriers work, The colder, the better. They work when active, they are NOT insulation and won't do much just standing around. I always used them between skin and socks, most use them over a thin liner sock. |
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I started using VBLs as a kid for winter camping. Made my own from coated ripstop and later bought Chouinards. I found a pair of form fitted neoprine socks in the early 90s. They have been my standard ever since. Thin liner inside. Boot fit without additional outer sock. Any extra space made up with insole. Sweaty feet make boots wet. When tent camping or sleeping in the back of the truck in early days, there was no way to dry boots overnight. Now staying in cabin or hotel it is one less thing to have to deal with. (Boot drying) A weeks worth of liner socks take up no room in the travel bag. Turn the neoprine inside out and they are dry quickly. It is very important to to have room with what ever you do. Feet swell a good bit from activity! |
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I have been using them on and off for about 7 years. A couple random thoughts or tips. Everybody sweats a different amount and as such will have varying degrees difference with a VBL sock. Also wearing a VBL is likely to increase the amount of sweating your foot does....it will just be contained within the sock. I have worn them with Nepals, Phantom Techs, and Snowboard boots and I didn't really notice much of a difference in warmth. Maybe a slight advantage but very minimal. I continue to use them but in limited circumstances. For me the biggest advantage is keeping your boot dry. I am often on multi-day trips where there is no easy way to dry out an ice boot. This is the perfect scenario for a VBL sock. Oh and I do remember 1 day in Cody where I punched through the ice into the river. My boot got soaked but my foot was still warm inside the VBL....probably saved the day so we could still climb. I have 2 different kinds of VBL socks....the older style Rab ones and the older style RBH Designs. I have also used plastic grocery bags. The Rab ones are thin, cheap and similar to a grocery bag. The advantage of the Rab over a grocery bag, is they hold up a lot longer, have a drawstring cord and are much less likely to accidentally tear on you. The downside to either one of these is that the VBL sock is loose. This creates little folds and allows for play between the sock your foot and the boot. I find you have to be very careful when putting them on. You have to get it situated with all the slack out from under the foot otherwise you have have weird pressure spots that are uncomfortable. I always wear a thin pair of dress socks under the VBL sock and this seems to work find. Oh and they are pretty short which can been an issue for a high ankle boot like snowboading/skiing boots. I tried them once and got horrible rubbing on my shin because the socks weren't tall enough to go to the top of the boot so the boot just rubbed my skin raw. The RBH Designs VBL sock is my favorite. It is much thicker and form fitted. There are actually many different sizes when you buy so you get one that is the correct size for your foot. They have a fleece backing which is nice and soft and lets me just wear the VBL instead of a thin pair of socks under it. I would say overall the thickness of the RBH Designs by themselves is similar to a wool sock. The pair I have does have a sewn hem that goes completely around the outside of your foot. So you have to makes sure your foot is in the correct location so this hem just tucks up into the corner of your boot. I tried to see if the new pair still has this but I can't tell for sure. To sum it up I would say VBL socks are really good for keeping your boots dry on multi-day trips in the backcountry. Get the RBH Designs ones if you want to use some. If you are having trouble with cold feet ice climbing then get heated socks (Lenz). |
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Marlin Thorman wrote: I tend to sweat more than the average person, so I’d always brought extra socks. (Trick to changing socks on a mountain side is to clip in through the boot laces and change the socks together stuffing them back into the mitten pockets.) |
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I have been using Gator neoprene VBL socks for decades. Really only use them for multi-day trips. |
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Does anybody use antihydral/methenimine for this? Seems like it could work. |
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I think I still have my second set of super gaiters. IME they add 20 F warmth to a boot. I'll sell them for $80. (They're $170 new) Sized to fit size 9-10 boots and never used. |
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Bruno Schull wrote: Hey Bruno! this is what I have generally been doing, and it works great. I'll probably end up getting some 6000m boots, and use those for the super cold days of ice climbing and for future 6000m climbs. I've heard of many of the elites (mike gardner, sam hennessy, a lot of the guys really pushing the envelope) doing crazy hard and fast climbs in AK in just Scarpa F1 LT's and Aliens using VBL's, but I also doubt they pitch out much of the climbing they're doing. Gotta keep reminding myself that the "fast and light" gear is really great ONLY when going "fast and light" and not pitching out grade IV ice and standing around at belays |
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THANKS for all the input! Takeaways: - VBL's help most with keeping boots dry, so a major plus on multiday trips, a way to use single boots on the multiday ice/mtneering trips - VBL's DON't add much or any warmth' - maybe try a gaiter with my gaitored boots? - buy warmer boots or just use my brain and don't climb in sub 0 F. |