Scarpa -- why did they change the rubber for WOMENS vapor velcro?

I used to love Scarpa Vapor, then they came out with a new model that uses the flimsy Grip rubber instead of the Edge rubber used in the old version. I wore through my first pair of the new shoes in under a month. Then it happened again with my second pair.

They still use the good, edge rubber in their men's vapors and in the women's vapor laceups, so why did they change it in the women's vapor Velcro version? Is it just sexist assumptions that women don't climb as much and won't notice the cheap rubber.

I really liked the shoes because of how they fit me. If anyone knows of an alternative w/a similar fit and strong rubber please let me know.

Veronica Horowitz wrote:

I used to love Scarpa Vapor, then they came out with a new model that uses the flimsy Grip rubber instead of the Edge rubber used in the old version. I wore through my first pair of the new shoes in under a month. Then it happened again with my second pair.

They still use the good, edge rubber in their men's vapors and in the women's vapor laceups, so why did they change it in the women's vapor Velcro version? Is it just sexist assumptions that women don't climb as much and won't notice the cheap rubber.

I really liked the shoes because of how they fit me. If anyone knows of an alternative w/a similar fit and strong rubber please let me know.

It’s not for sexiest reasons, it’s because women generally weigh less than men. This Reddit thread actually does a decent job of explaining it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/climbing/comments/6a9mm0/reason_for_different_rubber/

Grip is definitely NOT a cheap rubber. It's softer and stickier, best suited for cool condition and/or light climbers.

Just get them resoled with the rubber you like.

Veronica Horowitz wrote:

I used to love Scarpa Vapor, then they came out with a new model that uses the flimsy Grip rubber instead of the Edge rubber used in the old version. I wore through my first pair of the new shoes in under a month. Then it happened again with my second pair.

They still use the good, edge rubber in their men's vapors and in the women's vapor laceups, so why did they change it in the women's vapor Velcro version? Is it just sexist assumptions that women don't climb as much and won't notice the cheap rubber.

I really liked the shoes because of how they fit me. If anyone knows of an alternative w/a similar fit and strong rubber please let me know.

Bringing gender to a rubber fight. Hot take.

My guess is your footwork needs improving if you're taking out a pair of shoes in a month regardless of the rubber type. Post in image of the wear, probably dragging your toe(s).

Veronica Horowitz wrote:

Is it just sexist assumptions that women don't climb as much and won't notice the cheap rubber?

Yeah it's a vast conspiracy to alienate half of their potential customers...

if you can't find a different model that you like, I would suggest having your worn out shoes re-soled with edge instead of the rubber that comes on them. You could even have this done to new shoes but you may as well use them up first considering the expense. 

Good luck!

Veronica Horowitz wrote:

I used to love Scarpa Vapor, then they came out with a new model that uses the flimsy Grip rubber instead of the Edge rubber used in the old version. I wore through my first pair of the new shoes in under a month. Then it happened again with my second pair.

They still use the good, edge rubber in their men's vapors and in the women's vapor laceups, so why did they change it in the women's vapor Velcro version? Is it just sexist assumptions that women don't climb as much and won't notice the cheap rubber.

Boostics have Edge rubber and are built on a narrower last like the Vapour so might be a good alternative. 

The Scarpa comparison chart is good to get a feel for the different shoe types

https://world.scarpa.com/page/climbing-collection-structure

https://egress.storeden.net/gallery/65313c52be7ea0a81b734f76

You'll probably have heard this before but, if the possibility exists, there is no substitute for trying on a bunch of shoes in a shop. 

Why don't you just wear the men's version if they have XS edge?  I think the marketing of men's/women's climbing shoes is pretty dumb.  they just put softer/thinner rubber on the women's and call it a different shoe.  I really don't understand what your sexual organs have to do with climbing shoes.  Choosing Grip vs Edge has more to do with climbing style, climber weight, and temperature than anything.  I've worn both both men's and women's shoes for a long time and pick the most appropriate one for what I'm doing.

Mikey Schaefer wrote:

Why don't you just wear the men's version if they have XS edge?  I think the marketing of men's/women's climbing shoes is pretty dumb.  they just put softer/thinner rubber on the women's and call it a different shoe.  I really don't understand what your sexual organs have to do with climbing shoes.  Choosing Grip vs Edge has more to do with climbing style, climber weight, and temperature than anything.  I've worn both both men's and women's shoes for a long time and pick the most appropriate one for what I'm doing.

I’d love it so much if I could wear men’s shoes but the heels are generally too big for me. I hate everything about the colors of women’s shoes. 

post shoe pics so we can roast you

Well, if that’s the case, then why do they have the edge rubber on the lace up for women?

Climb On wrote:

It’s not for sexiest reasons, it’s because women generally weigh less than men. This Reddit thread actually does a decent job of explaining it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/climbing/comments/6a9mm0/reason_for_different_rubber/

Mr Rogers wrote:

Bringing gender to a rubber fight. Hot take.

My guess is your footwork needs improving if you're taking out a pair of shoes in a month regardless of the rubber type. Post in image of the wear, probably dragging your toe(s).

Maybe true, but the edge rubber is still lasted six months while the grip only lasts a few weeks for me…

Climb On wrote:

I’d love it so much if I could wear men’s shoes but the heels are generally too big for me. I hate everything about the colors of women’s shoes. 

Veronica Horowitz wrote:

Well, if that’s the case, then why do they have the edge rubber on the lace up for women?

Despite the same name, they’re two different shoes meant for different purposes- hence the different rubber. Sportiva does this too. Their miura vs miura Velcro are two totally different shoes. 

Description lifrom the website. 

The lace up- vertical to off vertical face climbing and crack climbing

Velcro- for bouldering, sport climbing, and technical face climbing. Yes the men’s still uses the edge but this is where the weight difference comes in.

I really wish people world refrain from automatically assuming things are done for sexist reasons. I’m saying this as a woman. 

Veronica Horowitz wrote:

Maybe true, but the edge rubber is still lasted six months while the grip only lasts a few weeks for me…

Its you. Not the rubber.
If it was the rubber, you would hear of many more complaints of the durability of XS grip. Again, I bet you are dragging your toe(s). Pictures would easily give insight into the issue, but my guess is they wont make it here for any input because its easier to blame rubber as being "cheap". Especially if your climbing in a gym mainly and dragging on sandpaper walls.

GLW your next set of shoes, or maybe send em' to yosemite bum for some of those super rands so your footwork will take way longer to wear a hole in your shoes.

Mr Rogers wrote:

Its you. Not the rubber.
If it was the rubber, you would hear of many more complaints of the durability of XS grip. Again, I bet you are dragging your toe(s). Pictures would easily give insight into the issue, but my guess is they wont make it here for any input because its easier to blame rubber as being "cheap". Especially if your climbing in a gym mainly and dragging on sandpaper walls.

GLW your next set of shoes, or maybe send em' to yosemite bum for some of those super rands so your footwork will take way longer to wear a hole in your shoes.

Lol I just don't feel like digging in the basement for the old ones, eventually I will post them. But the point being Grip rubber wears through much faster than edge -- My footwork isn't any different with different rubber silly.

Climb On wrote:

Despite the same name, they’re two different shoes meant for different purposes- hence the different rubber. Sportiva does this too. Their miura vs miura Velcro are two totally different shoes. 

Description lifrom the website. 

The lace up- vertical to off vertical face climbing and crack climbing

Velcro- for bouldering, sport climbing, and technical face climbing. Yes the men’s still uses the edge but this is where the weight difference comes in.

I really wish people world refrain from automatically assuming things are done for sexist reasons. I’m saying this as a woman. 

Interesting. I contacted Scarpa directly about the issue and  they suggested I get the laceups as an alternative. Funny Scarpa doesn't realize they make 2 shoes with the same name with different purposes... 

Climb On wrote:

I’d love it so much if I could wear men’s shoes but the heels are generally too big for me. I hate everything about the colors of women’s shoes. 

It's a mixed bag, really. Men's stuff comes in black, charcoal, dark grey, grey, and some times red or blue. I buy things in girly colors all the time. 

Have you tried anything to decrease volume in the heels of men's shoes? They make heel cups for boots maybe something like they would work. Hell you could cut up an old shoe insole and affix it with barge cement. 

Rasputin NLN wrote:

It's a mixed bag, really. Men's stuff comes in black, charcoal, dark grey, grey, and some times red or blue. I buy things in girly colors all the time. 

Have you tried anything to decrease volume in the heels of men's shoes? They make heel cups for boots maybe something like they would work. Hell you could cut up an old shoe insole and affix it with barge cement. 

I haven’t. Women's shoes fit properly, sacrificing fit and performance isn’t worth it. I would be open to trying something like that on a dead pair the next time I have ones headed for the trash bin. 

Mikey Schaefer wrote:

Why don't you just wear the men's version if they have XS edge?  I think the marketing of men's/women's climbing shoes is pretty dumb.  they just put softer/thinner rubber on the women's and call it a different shoe.  I really don't understand what your sexual organs have to do with climbing shoes.  Choosing Grip vs Edge has more to do with climbing style, climber weight, and temperature than anything.  I've worn both both men's and women's shoes for a long time and pick the most appropriate one for what I'm doing.

I mean women on average tend to weigh less than men and have lower volume feet, hence why it could make sense to market them as mens vs women's shoes. Same goes for running shoes.

Although some brands are switching to LV/HV. Either way it is just written on the box and doesn't actually matter what "gender" of shoes you wear.

Connor Dobson wrote:

hence why it could make sense to market them as mens vs women's shoes. 

I suspect we're arguing the same point, but the LV/HV distinction makes a lot more sense than mens/womens if that's the main difference besides coloration. Some women have larger feet and some men have smaller feet.

A company changed their product - a story as old as climbing. Well, almost.

It will happen to every single piece of kit you own - obsolescence. Just when you get to liking a product, it's gone. 

I supposed, in my world, Black Diamond Stoppers would be the least changed piece of kit I own, but since I so rarely use them anymore, they are obsolete anyway, though this time by my choice. There are better nuts for my purpose! Anyway, all good products are born to die.