Skimo rope help

Done some research, looking to get either a 30m Rad line now and then pick up another later or get the Mammut Alpine 7.5 half rope in 60m and cut it in half. Then I have two ropes I can still ice climb with. Thoughts?

Long response:  TLDR:   If i were going to buy the Rad, it would be the 60m version.  I'd find a cheap(ish) 30m super skinny for where I KNEW i could get away with that short of a rope.

Unless you're looking at something pretty specific, I think 30m is a pretty short rope in the alpine and in the technical ski discipline and thus not very useful for a large spectrum of objectives.  I've dabbled with getting one of those specialty ropes, but have not yet pulled the trigger - if I did I'm pretty sure it would be of the 60m flavor.  

You may be referring to buying one 30m now, and adding another 30m later ... that would work, but still I think a little too specialized unless you've got a serious quiver of gear (or $$$).  

Ice climbing with a 30m rope is frustratingly slow, and don't think I'd like to be leading anything appreciable/vertical with just the Rad Line (I've its a comfy solo and your simply tagging the rope to connect it with glacier travel terrain, etc. than I think that is an appropriate use for the Rad).  If there is appreciable ice climbing, I'd be bringing a real climbing rope appropriate for the route (understand those could be anything from super skinny double/twin or a single, just depends).  

I've done some skiing up in WA, what routes/peaks are you looking at?  Some thoughts on some common objectives where a rope might be handy:

- Anything on Rainier - I've used a 30m 8mm and a 30m tag -or- 30m 8mm.  If I did it again I'd go with a single super skinny half/twin (Rad in 60m would work) or stick with the 30m 8mm (30m Rad would also work, but that is for super basic glacier travel - I wouldn't buy the Rad simply for that, and a 60m Rad would also be fine, with just more kiwi coils)

- Hood NF - would want at least a 40m or 50m single or 2x double/twin (i.e. real climbing), I'd maybe be willing to use a Rad depending on my partner and how strong I felt.

- Spearhead Traverse - 30m 8mm, but the 30m Rad would work. Again, I wouldn't buy the Rad for this.  60m Rad would still probably be fine vs. a 30m 8mm

- Stuff in the Enchantments - if it's technical on the up, a real rope system.  If its technical on the down (i.e. rappelling, and not really technical on the ascent) I'd like a 60m Rad unless I 100% KNEW i could get away with a 30m (and in that case the 30m 8mm is probably fine) (you could also have two 30m Rad or 30m Rad + 30m something else ... but that's back to the not very utilitarian category).  

- Baker NR - 30m 8mm was fine, not sure i would want to lead (or follow?) that section of ice with just the Rad.

Something else to consider is the number of people in the group:

- Two people.  Some think 30m is adequate for just a party of 2.  Some people think two people need *MORE* rope - thus at least 45-60m of rope (since single-person rescue is more complicated than two people working to rescue one person).  If your skiing, and only need the rope to rappel, than being able to split the rope into two people's kit have weight benefits for all (but also pretty easy to share other things to equal the weight) - I think this is really the only scenario where a 30m Rad really makes sense - pretty small slice and the 30m Rad not helpful in many other cases (where the 60m Rad would be helpful)

- Three (or more) people.  I think pretty safe to say most people are using a 60m in these situations

Cheers

Dave

Agree with Dave, a well rounded assortment might be:

• 60 M twin/halves
• 60 M radline
• 30 M Petzl Volta or similar (not too skinny) triple rated rope

Halves for ice, rad line for skimo, glacier where not climbing, one half rope where you might need to climb easy terrain, 30m where you might simulclimb (I prefer slightly thicker rope like volta for this over a half because i often find myself simuling ridge terrain where there’s sharp edges) or do short raps

Two 30m rad lines is a common configuration for technical ski descents. It gives you the length of a single 60, splits the weight between partners, and ensures that everyone has a rope.

Everyone having a rope can be key if you start really playing on the wild tech descents. If you get in over your head, your partner can anchor with their skis, and drop you a line to give a belay while you transition and boot back up out. 

NateC wrote:

Two 30m rad lines is a common configuration for technical ski descents. It gives you the length of a single 60, splits the weight between partners, and ensures that everyone has a rope.

Everyone having a rope can be key if you start really playing on the wild tech descents. If you get in over your head, your partner can anchor with their skis, and drop you a line to give a belay while you transition and boot back up out. 

This, especially splitting the rope for technical ski descents. Don't want the one person with a rope falling in a hole. 30m rad line is a valid option if you have a 2nd or your partner has another. For uphill / glacier travel, you can tie them together into a 60m so you can travel as one team of 2-4, then split it for descent. Make sure the last person down has a rope. Also make sure you practice crevasse rescue options with just 30m of rope, since you might not be able to use a drop-C system. 

Check out Rob Coppolillo‘s article on this topic here.

https://wildsnow.com/28797/slim-versatility-edelrid-rap-line-protect-rope-review/

I ended up going for a 60m Edelrid Rap Line Protect, though I already had a 30m Rad line. I would not regularly ice climb on a doubled Edelrid however, but it’s good for occasional leading.

https://www.oliunid.com/edelrid-rap-line-protect-pro-dry-6-mm.html

Dave Schultz wrote:

Long response:  TLDR:   If i were going to buy the Rad, it would be the 60m version.  I'd find a cheap(ish) 30m super skinny for where I KNEW i could get away with that short of a rope.

Unless you're looking at something pretty specific, I think 30m is a pretty short rope in the alpine and in the technical ski discipline and thus not very useful for a large spectrum of objectives.  I've dabbled with getting one of those specialty ropes, but have not yet pulled the trigger - if I did I'm pretty sure it would be of the 60m flavor.  

You may be referring to buying one 30m now, and adding another 30m later ... that would work, but still I think a little too specialized unless you've got a serious quiver of gear (or $$$).  

Ice climbing with a 30m rope is frustratingly slow, and don't think I'd like to be leading anything appreciable/vertical with just the Rad Line (I've its a comfy solo and your simply tagging the rope to connect it with glacier travel terrain, etc. than I think that is an appropriate use for the Rad).  If there is appreciable ice climbing, I'd be bringing a real climbing rope appropriate for the route (understand those could be anything from super skinny double/twin or a single, just depends).  

I've done some skiing up in WA, what routes/peaks are you looking at?  Some thoughts on some common objectives where a rope might be handy:

- Anything on Rainier - I've used a 30m 8mm and a 30m tag -or- 30m 8mm.  If I did it again I'd go with a single super skinny half/twin (Rad in 60m would work) or stick with the 30m 8mm (30m Rad would also work, but that is for super basic glacier travel - I wouldn't buy the Rad simply for that, and a 60m Rad would also be fine, with just more kiwi coils)

- Hood NF - would want at least a 40m or 50m single or 2x double/twin (i.e. real climbing), I'd maybe be willing to use a Rad depending on my partner and how strong I felt.

- Spearhead Traverse - 30m 8mm, but the 30m Rad would work. Again, I wouldn't buy the Rad for this.  60m Rad would still probably be fine vs. a 30m 8mm

- Stuff in the Enchantments - if it's technical on the up, a real rope system.  If its technical on the down (i.e. rappelling, and not really technical on the ascent) I'd like a 60m Rad unless I 100% KNEW i could get away with a 30m (and in that case the 30m 8mm is probably fine) (you could also have two 30m Rad or 30m Rad + 30m something else ... but that's back to the not very utilitarian category).  

- Baker NR - 30m 8mm was fine, not sure i would want to lead (or follow?) that section of ice with just the Rad.

Something else to consider is the number of people in the group:

- Two people.  Some think 30m is adequate for just a party of 2.  Some people think two people need *MORE* rope - thus at least 45-60m of rope (since single-person rescue is more complicated than two people working to rescue one person).  If your skiing, and only need the rope to rappel, than being able to split the rope into two people's kit have weight benefits for all (but also pretty easy to share other things to equal the weight) - I think this is really the only scenario where a 30m Rad really makes sense - pretty small slice and the 30m Rad not helpful in many other cases (where the 60m Rad would be helpful)

- Three (or more) people.  I think pretty safe to say most people are using a 60m in these situations

Cheers

Dave

Amazing response Dave. I think what I’m going to do is save up for the 60m rad line and use that for glacier travel, crevasse rescue, skimo etc and then stick with my 70m mammut alpine for leading anything. I like having the security of my burly rope even if it’s heavier. Plus if I’m leading anything I’ll want that.

Whenever I get into more technically ice/trad I’ll look into getting half ropes but for now that’s just more money for not a lot more value. 30m volta is a good idea though.

I prefer 40m or longer ropes. I have a 40m and a 70m mammut.  There are lines I have been on where a 30m rope would have come up short. I love the idea of rad line or mammut glacier if you are only crossing glaciers or rapping. I want one for days I am not sure if I will need to rappel, but might and it will probably be riding in my pack all day. One of my big hesitations is that my partners will need gear that works on it and be competent using it on that small of a slick cord. 

Aaron Moos wrote:

I prefer 40m or longer ropes. I have a 40m and a 70m mammut.  There are lines I have been on where a 30m rope would have come up short. I love the idea of rad line or mammut glacier if you are only crossing glaciers or rapping. I want one for days I am not sure if I will need to rappel, but might and it will probably be riding in my pack all day. One of my big hesitations is that my partners will need gear that works on it and be competent using it on that small of a slick cord. 

You can use a petzl reverso with two carabiners or a munter hitch but yeah 6mm is tiny.

You can put me in the group that prefers more rope for a smaller group because any crevasse rescue is going to be more difficult solo.  I also try to recognize the capabilities of partners and pack accordingly.  If we have 3 team members and everyone is fully capable then 2 thirty meters ropes would be adequate for glacier skiing.  If I'm likely to be the only person performing a rescue then I'll carry a 60m rope and give my partner a 30m rope.

The Rad Line is too expensive for me so I have the Mammut glacier cord in 30m and the Beal Backup in 60m.  I also just picked up the BD 6mm cord in a 65m length primarily for motorized access days because it's cheap and anything mechanical breaks down but I wouldn't carry the BD cord in a pack because of how stiff it is.  I would not lead climb on any of these, if it came down to it I would solo with a tag line or turn around, they are only meant for rescue/hauling and rappel.  Make sure to test your devices and systems on these small cords before having to use them in the wild, they don't handle the same and you might have to adapt your technique or tools.