Canadian Rockies ice trip - seeking advice for a first timer

I’m planning an ice trip to the Canadian Rockies in Feb. Two people, +/-10 climbing days. The area feels massive and there is a lot I don’t know. I’m trying to educate myself to avoid dumb mistakes and climb as much as we can.

I have the jojo Waterfall Ice book, Ice Lines book, and Will Gadd’s app. I’ve read the intros to both books + app. I’ve read Will Gadd’s Rockies intro article. I’m familiarizing myself with avalanche.ca (I have formal avy training), local weather forecasts, ice conditions pages on Facebook / other, and road condition info.

I’m doing my usual winter training (Hood ice, local dry tooling, gym). Plus there will be my usual week in Hyalite. So I think I’ll feel strong again by Feb. 

The goal will be to hit as many classics as possible in the WI4-WI5 range. I’ve compiled a list of ~40 routes that look most interesting. I have them roughly mapped out. Since my avy training was not specific to the rockies and I just don’t get out in serious avy terrain, the goal will be to stick to climbs that have an ATES class of 2 or less, unless we have very good reason to push it beyond.

Right now I’m thinking we drive from Portland to Canmore (12 hr) and just stay there the whole time in a hotel or something. Not sure where yet. I drive a Forester and I carry chains. Seems like that will be enough to get us most places (aside from the Ghost). Some reports say you need a very stout 4x4 to get in there, others say it’s not that bad. Not sure what to think. So many great looking lines in the ghost, but I don’t know if I want to risk getting stranded. 

Anyway, any advice for a newcomer would be welcome:

• Gear suggestions that a Hyalite climber wouldn’t already have? 
• Skis? Snowshoes? 
• Weather/conditions websites or advice?
• Avy avoidance advice? Do folks always carry beacon/shovel/probe?
• How early are people starting up popular classics? Predawn?
• Road/driving advice? Will my Forester be fine? I also have a Promaster camper van but it’s just front wheel drive. I think a hotel/hostel/airbnb/whatever will be nicer than staying in the van anyway. 
• Good places to stay/eat? Stay in Canmore the whole time? (we have pretty low standards) How early to make reservations? Hoping to reserve as late as possible to have a better idea of weather. 
• Advice on getting into the Ghost?

Thanks!

Yes, carry beacon, shovel & probe. See this interview with Grant Statham of Parks Canada:

https://gripped.com/profiles/ice-climbers-should-carry-beacons-in-avalanche-areas/

I have had a multiple trips up there over the last 10 years.  However I am definitely not the authority.   But here is my take on some of your questions.

Skis/snowshoes.  Most of the climbs in Brent's book are popular and as such will have a packed trail into them (as long as it hasn't snowed recently).  After a recent snowfall or if doing some more obscure stuff you might have to break trail.  Generally the most useful would be snowshoes (however I think I have only used them on one approach).  There are several climbs where the approach is long and flatter and skis would be advantageous (Takakkaw Falls, Bow Falls, Whiteman Falls to name a few).  There are also times where the trails get super icy and actually a pair of yaktrax is the most useful.  Personally I usually bring all 3 options and most often don't use any...however it is nice to have when you want them.

Weather/Avy.  When people go up to Canmore/Banff to climb ice I think most don't realize how large an area the climbs are spread out over.  From Banff it is 100 miles up to Weeping Wall area on the Icefields Parkway and 65 miles to the southern end of Kananaskis country.  Field, BC sits on the western side of the range while the Ghost is on the east side.  Why I bring this up is to say that the weather and avy conditions are often VERY different between all those places.  For example last week when I was up there Kananaskis Country got rain while Field got 8 inches of snow and the David Thompson got 1 inch.  These all presented very different avalanche issues.  Obviously avalanche.ca is the place to start.  Read though the MIN reports and the bulletin.  But also realize that the bulletin areas are still large and diverse...in particular the Banff bulletin covers from the Saskatchewan Crossing (the intersection between the Icefields Parkway and the David Thompson) all the way down to almost Canmore and over to Field.  I have found windy.com and windguru.com to both be pretty good for the area.  They both allow point forecasts which aids in the task of comparing weather throughout the region.  

Locations/lodging.  This one is a lot more personal preference.  As referenced above the overall area is pretty large.  As such if you stay in Canmore the whole time you could easily be doing 3-4 hours of driving every day.  I have found that Lake Louise is about as central as it gets if you want to be able to get anywhere in the area.  However splitting time between Canmore/Banff and either Field or a hostel up on the parkway (Rampart Creek) allows you to have much less driving.  The only downside is that if you book Rampart Creek for the first half and Canmore for the 2nd half it might be the conditions/weather are better for those 2 locations to be reversed.  I have found hotel vacancy in Canmore the day of multiple times.  Hostels tend to book up a little sooner.  Anything like an Air B&B is often booked up well in advance.  Also note that Banff in general is a lot more expensive and less options than Canmore.  There are hostels all over the area...just look up HI Canada Wilderness hostels.  

A Forester with chains will get you anywhere you want to go except the Ghost.  Most of the climbing would be fine in a 2 wheel drive vehicle unless it is during a storm.  They are pretty good about plowing the TransCanada Hwy but the Icefields Parkway and other hwys are sometimes a bit more snowy.  Even there they will definitely have a plow out the day after a storm.  You do need permits for travel into the Parks.  Depending on how many days you might think about an annual instead of paying the day rate multiple days in a row.

As noted above you should be carrying a beacon, shovel and probe.  There are some very serious avalanche areas.  Several of the climbing areas fall inside avalanche control areas as well.  Most noteably are the "beer climbs" in Field.  They do avalanche control work after a storm so you should double check with Parks Canada to ensure they aren't going to be blasting on a day you want to climb.  They put up signs in the morning but if you get a super early start then a ranger will have to hike all the way up to the climbs and tell you to get off....and trust me they aren't happy about having to do so!

Start times vary widely.  Remember lots of people have to drive 1-2 hrs from their accommodation to the approach and often people don't want to get up at 4am just to drive 2 hrs and start hiking.  With that said there are also lots of hostels spread throughout where climbers can be 10-15min from approaches.  I have driven by popular climbs at 10am and seen nobody and then last week there were 4 vehicles at Murchison by 9am. I find that it is either best to get there at dawn to ensure you are first, pull the afternoon shift (if you are fast), or have Plans B, C, D and E in mind.  Most of the time if you are doing a route not in Brent's book then you could expect a lot less people and potentially have no conflicts with another party.  Thankfully the majority of the climbing has 1 approach and parking spot that isn't shared with another climb.  So in general when you see a car parked on the side of the road you know which climb they are doing (as opposed to say Hyalite where 1 parking spot could lead to 30 different climbs).  

Ghost.  The ghost is awesome but part of the lack of crowds is because of the roads in.  With the Ghost on the east side of the mountains it doesn't receive nearly as much precip and is usually quite a bit warmer.  When there is no or minimal snow and the ice shelves/dams are minimal then driving can be pretty easy.  But after a snow storm or when the river forms up larger ice shelves/dams the driving is definitely not easy.  Personally I would only consider taking my 4x4 non-lifted truck in under ideal conditions...and I wouldn't even consider taking a Subaru.  But then again I have seen Subaru's in there as well as all manner of vehicles.  Maybe it comes down to your willingness to dig yourself out and how much you are willing to push your vehicle.  When conditions are favorable (low snow) you could potentially get to the bottom of the big hill pretty easily at the river crossing and walk in from there (if you are willing to walk a ways).  

Gear suggestions/Advice.  I would say be sure to read through both the MIN reports on avalanche canada and the different FB groups for the area.  These will both provide good ideas into what is currently in condition.  And when your Plan A and B are both already occupied it is really nice to know what is in and what is not when you are looking for a Plan C on the fly.  I would also say be ready and willing to drive a lot, especially if you are going after all the classic WI4/5s.  For gear, know that it could be cold...much colder than Hyalite.  I have had multiple trips up there where the high temps never reached 0F for days in a row.  These cold temps make the ice brittle.  Grades are similar to Hyalite and a lot of the classics are just as picked out.

HI Canada hostels gives you a lot more options and a lot less driving. Even if the hostels are booked, you can often pickup last minute cancellations.
Your Forester will be fine for most everything (except Ghost)

Drew, I feel obliged to chime in here, as a token Albertan.  Marlin nailed it and has given excellent advice.  However, he may have underestimated the enthusiasm of Bow Valley climbers, in particular; you'll definitely want to be at the parking lot before sunrise if you have any hope of getting on the "classics." Things have definitely gotten busier in recent years.

The Ghost is extremely variable, as Marlin has described.  I was in the South Ghost yesterday, and it was a piece of cake for almost the entire drive.  Even Trapper's Hill, which was described as being a "skating rink" 2 days earlier, was totally a non-issue.  A Subaru with winter tires would have been fine until the big hill, at least, and probably to the first river crossing.  Tomorrow, wind-driven snow could drift in, or an ice dam could break upriver, and it could be impassable for almost any vehicle for rge next week or two.

Flexibility in your plans is the key around these parts.

I'd be happy to get you into the Ghost, if schedules align, but you'd probably be doing most of the leading (I can lead WI4, with some hanging, on a good day).  Drop me a line if interested.

Thank you everyone! Especially Marlin. Lots of great info here. Much, much appreciated!!!

- I can easily toss snowshoes and micro spikes in the car. Skis would take up a lot of space so I'll leave them at home.

When people go up to Canmore/Banff to climb ice I think most don't realize how large an area the climbs are spread out over.

- I'm definitely trying to recalibrate myself on this. It's such a massive area... Just drawing some lines here and there on the map to see scale reminds me of it. And I'm sure it'll take the whole trip before I even get a sense of it. I will keep that in mind while forecasting weather and avy conditions, especially if we have multiple climb options in mind for the next day. Thanks for the multiple avy tips. And thanks Terry for the link. 

- Sounds like I need to do more research on lodging. Lots of options to think about for splitting time in different areas. Analysis paralysis incoming... I'm not opposed to moving around or trying to stay flexible but I think it'll take some googling of the options. I will also look at HI (thanks Greg).

- Early starts it is then! I have about 40 routes that I noted as interesting, typically there are many near each other. So hopefully we can always have backup plans for each day that don't require much driving. 

- I'd really love to get into the Ghost but everything you've said is similar to much that I've read. I really like my car and I don't want it to become a permanent feature in the river...

- Thanks for the cold weather tips. I was planning on bringing my warmest gear. Sounds like I'll need it. 

Again, much thanks for all the advice! I'm very much looking forward to the trip!

I'd be happy to get you into rhe Ghost, if schedules align, but you'd probably be doing most of the leading (I can lead WI4, with some hanging, on a good day).  Drop me a line if interested.

Grant, thanks as well for the info! You posted while I was typing my reply. Early starts await :-)
I've always laughed at the big lifted 4x4's that I occasionally see driving around Portland. I've never, ever, ever, wanted one until now lol. 

I will definitely keep you in mind! Thanks for the offer. Me or my partner can definitely do all the leading and beer buying!

https://youtu.be/h1HrxgKIotc?si=7U4u-Ph-v0W57MYZ&t=303

I came across this video and I will definitely not be driving my Forester into the Ghost...

Flying home today from my first trip to the area. We stayed 7 nights in Canmore and climbed 6 days (Louis falls, Murchison, Whiteman, Weeping Wall, Spray River, King Creek) and a couple things my partner and I were talking about.

1) we didn’t have Joe’s book, but the app and Ice Lines are full of mistakes. Especially the approach time/distance/elevation gain

2) probably going to be chastised for this BUT; we didn’t bring avy gear. Our thought was if we think we need it we shouldn’t be climbing there anyway. Granted that might have limited us a bit, but kept us safe

3) I think we’d rent an RV out of Calgary next time. It’s $90 a day and after rental car and room it probably would have been cheaper. Plus we would drive less than 1/2 as much as we did being based out of Canmore. Not to mention the ability to be flexible and being able to wake up at the trailhead every morning 

4) REST DAYS!!!! Six days straight wiped both of us out. Granted, we could have throttled back, but we came here to push ourselves. The approach’s combined with all the steep ice took a toll.

5) if we were to do Whiteman’s again we’d probably rent XC skis for the day and carry our climbing boots. This was the only one of our approaches that we wished we’d had them.

Overall it was a great trip! We can’t wait to come back, but we would change our approach to it differently.

Willing to answer any specific questions you might have. 

^ Very nice and helpful report!

I can relate to the thinking “if I need avy gear, I shouldn’t be here”. Out of respect for possible rescuers, I’d recommend just wearing beacons then, which don’t increase one’s weight much. In 2019, with the Howse Peak accident, SAR put themselves under considerable risk due to avalanche hazard and even searched while attached to lines from a hovering helicopter. Recco tags in one’s clothing or on a helmet are a good idea and they weigh close to nothing.

edit: of course Recco usually only works for body recovery, not live..

drew A wrote:

https://youtu.be/h1HrxgKIotc?si=7U4u-Ph-v0W57MYZ&t=303

I came across this video and I will definitely not be driving my Forester into the Ghost...

Fair enough, but that video makes things look worse than they were (note the description... using 2WD only). The biggest issue for a Forester would be the river crossings, not the deep snow (a challenge either way, of course).

Grant Watson wrote:

The biggest issue for a Forester would be the river crossings, not the deep snow (a challenge either way, of course).

You think an outback with real snow tires would be any different?

Finn Lanvers wrote:

You think an outback with real snow tires would be any different?

Don't think so.  The issue is clearance.  Deep snow can be plowed through with enough perseverance and shovels, but the ice shelves are a different story.  Pretty much anything can bounce into the river (doing whatever damage to exhaust, bumpers, etc. that may result on the way), but you're going to have a hard time getting out if your bumper is hitting the ice shelf before your tires (or if your tires are hitting too high on the ice).  I have found that studded tires help.  This gives you a pretty good idea of what to expect:

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipN4A0RZDeTZZQ11ndnxGSgDxtRUqTw56Jqr0Y5_

That's a lifted Tacoma with 33" studded tires, if I remember correctly.

Now, nothing is impossible of course.  A good fireman's axe/pick axe/splitting maul will smooth out the exit, but you're going to be pretty cold, wet, and delayed by the time you do that once or twice. I carry neoprene chest waders, just in case.

Edit:  To be more technically accurate, I should have said the issue is clearance through deep snow and approach and departure angles for the river.

Thanks for the advice!

climbing coastie wrote:

1) we didn’t have Joe’s book, but the app and Ice Lines are full of mistakes. Especially the approach time/distance/elevation gain

JoJo's book is actually still an amazing reference. The app is just a horrible cut and paste from JoJo's and the old mixed climbs book so the app has 25 year old beta that often makes no sense in areas that have seen a lot of road construction (e.g., Kicking Horse Canyon, Mt Hunter, Hwy 95, etc). Reading the descriptions on the app is like circling around through different time periods in a Faulkner novel, but the navigation beta is priceless for the climbs that have it.

The Ice Lines is often equally hard to use for approaches. It does have UTM coordinates for parking and climbs, but you need to add a few zeros to get the format readable by most navigation apps.

That's a lot of climbing @climbcoastie!

climbing coastie, thanks for the writeup! That's a lot of great info. Yes we were planning on rest days as well. It's a 2 week trip with +/-10 climbing days when you subtract travel and rest. I usually spend a week in hyalite and have never managed to climb every day. I get pretty wiped too. 

An RV never crossed my mind. I will consider it though!

Also your tick list for the trip is awesome! Nice work dude!!!

Grant, I agree that they were definitely pretty cavalier in the video with the 2wd and seemed to be taking some risks for the views. But it still looks like the real deal out there! I'm sure the locals know all the good ways to avoid the worst obstacles (like yourself) but I am the opposite of a local...

Rexford Nesakwatch wrote:

The Ice Lines is often equally hard to use for approaches. It does have UTM coordinates for parking and climbs, but you need to add a few zeros to get the format readable by most navigation apps.

It took me so much fiddling to figure out how to make the coordinates convert!!! And even after I did, it was still a major PITA!
I'm not a GIS person so I don't know what advantage UTM coordinates have, but I can assure you that simple lat long would have been better for a publication like this. 

The Ice Lines author is an ex-military guy, and I think UTM came from the military or is the military standard. I'm kinda talking out my ass here, so please don't quote me on this. However, when I was epicing with those Ice Lines UTMs, I reached out to Gaia's awesome customer support and here is their reply:

"Example format

• UTM: 10S 756690 4327959

Note that the UTM coordinate should have 6 numbers in the middle section and 7 numbers in the end section. In the screenshots you sent it appears that you only have 5 numbers in each of those sections, so that is what appears to be causing this issue you are experiencing."

So you need to add one 0 to the end of the middle 5 numbers and 2 0s to end numbers and Gaia, at least, will recognize them.

Rexford Nesakwatch wrote:

So you need to add one 0 to the end of the middle 5 numbers and 2 0s to end numbers and Gaia, at least, will recognize them.

Yes this is pretty much what I figured out by trial and error. I can't remember exactly where to put the 0's offhand but I'll assume you're correct. 

I ended up finding a website with a map that would output UTM coordinates and I clicked on a location as close as I could manage to a point shown in the book and just compared the output from the website to the book. I was able to figure out where to add the 0's that way. I have no idea how UTM works so I don't know why I was doing it, but it worked. 

Lots of good beta here.  Just one comment regarding avy gear... if you are in avalanche terrain you should absolutely carry beacon/probe/shovel at all times.  Even if you think conditions are safe.  Ice climbers seem to be the only serious user group with a significant number of people still venturing into avalanche terrain without the proper gear.  It's insane.  Carry avy gear, make extremely conservative choices (pay particular attention to wind loading above your route), and don't linger in a slide path any longer than necessary to complete your objective.

drew A wrote:

…I'm not a GIS person so I don't know what advantage UTM coordinates have, but I can assure you that simple lat long would have been better for a publication like this. 

I’m pasting below from https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/four-good-reasons-to-have-a-utm-grid-on-your-map

which lists advantages of UTM:

1. Quickly estimate distance in kilometers between points

2. Provides north / south grid lines to more accurately measure a bearing from your map

Terry E wrote:

I’m pasting below from https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/four-good-reasons-to-have-a-utm-grid-on-your-map

which lists advantages of UTM:

1. Quickly estimate distance in kilometers between points

2. Provides north / south grid lines to more accurately measure a bearing from your map

I agree that those are advantages of the UTM grid overlayed on a premade map.

They are not advantages of noting coordinates in whatever UTM “style” the Ice Lines book notes them in. If you try to type the coordinates shown in Ice Lines into caltopo or Google or any typical phone mapping app, it can’t parse it. So it’s 100% useless in the field unless you know where to add the zeros or have a separate way to convert to lat long on your phone.

If the book wrote them in lat long, you just type them into your app exactly as you see them. No conversion or 0’s needed.