Ceuse Cost

Hello, starting to consider a trip to Ceuse in July(yes, I know it’s hot, but truthfully it’s the only time that it’ll work for me and I’d just be stoked to be there, besides, I’m from Utah and I’m a seasoned veteran of climbing hard in the heat)and have several questions.

First off, do you think 10 days is enough time? My group would likely fly in from SLC to Marseille, and we are thinking 10-14 days.

What is the price breakdown for groceries? I’ve been able to roughly calculate all other expenses(Airbnb in Gap, rental car to get to and from Marseilles and spend time in other places on rest day, plane tickets, etc) but haven’t found anything on groceries haha.

What are your recommendations for rest day activities? We would probably spend our first day exploring Marseilles, climb in Ceuse for three days on, one day off, and then four days on with one of those days for hiking and easier classic routes? Do you have better ideas for days on and off? A lot would be weather dependent too.

What are your recommendations for routes from 7a-8b+? I would love to hear people’s favorites.

How bad is the hike really? Are people just over exaggerating?

Lastly, though Ceuse is our preferred destination, is Les Gorges Du Verdon a better summer climbing destination?

Any help is much appreciated. I apologize for all of the questions. Thank you so much for your time and response.

Ceuse would be better than Verdon in the summer, as long as you chase shade. The cliff is at 6,700’ after all. Camp at Les Guerrins, which is affordable and cushy camping. The hike is no big deal. It is about one hour to 1.5 hours up-hill on a really nice trail with about 4k’ in elevation gain. Keep in mind that you will hike climbing gear up only on the first day and stash it under Biographie. Thereafter, you’ll carry just lunch, water and layers. I actually really enjoyed the hike, and I’m an old man.

Sectors Berlin, Biographie and Demi Lune, all immediately adjacent to each other, have amazing routes at your grade range. Keep in mind that Ceuse grades are very solid and the bolting can get your attention. We did not find a bad route the whole time there.

You can find basic groceries around Ceuse and Sigoyer, even at the small camp store, but major shopping needs to be done in Gap, about 45 minutes away. I would have hated to commute from Gap for every day of climbing. 

Frank Stein wrote:

Ceuse would be better than Verdon in the summer, as long as you chase shade. The cliff is at 6,700’ after all. Camp at Les Guerrins, which is affordable and cushy camping. The hike is no big deal. It is about one hour to 1.5 hours up-hill on a really nice trail with about 4k’ in elevation gain. Keep in mind that you will hike climbing gear up only on the first day and stash it under Biographie. Thereafter, you’ll carry just lunch, water and layers. I actually really enjoyed the hike, and I’m an old man.

Sectors Berlin, Biographie and Demi Lune, all immediately adjacent to each other, have amazing routes at your grade range. Keep in mind that Ceuse grades are very solid and the bolting can get your attention. We did not find a bad route the whole time there.

You can find basic groceries around Ceuse and Sigoyer, even at the small camp store, but major shopping needs to be done in Gap, about 45 minutes away. I would have hated to commute from Gap for every day of climbing. 

Thank you so much for all the information, I really appreciate it!

Addy S wrote:

 We would probably spend our first day exploring Marseilles, climb in Ceuse for three days on, one day off, and then four days on with one of those days for hiking and easier classic routes? Do you have better ideas for days on and off? A lot would be weather dependent too.

3 on, 1 off, 4 on is a lot of days on in row. I understand the desire to get in as many days as possible, but I suspect you'd be pretty ragged at the end of each of those blocks. This is especially relevant somewhere like Ceuse in the summer - that's a big hike in the heat each day.

You'd probably get more value going 2 on, 1 off, 2 on, 1 off, 2 on.  Weather dependent of course.

Addy S wrote:

Thank you so much for all the information, I really appreciate it!

No problem. Let us know if you need any more beta. And, JCM is correct. Ceuse is amazing, but also tends to be abusive both physically and mentally. Also, the sectors I mentioned earlier tend to get afternoon shade, so you’ll be hiking up late morning to early afternoon. so yeah, it’ll be warm despite ample tree cover.

There is a lot of nice hiking around Ceuse, but after the daily approach, we were happy to just lounge around camp, or go shopping in Gap. We did walk to several goat cheese farms…you should definitely visit the goat cheese farms and get goat cheese, bread, preserves and local beer. 

Frank Stein wrote:

 We did walk to several goat cheese farms…you should definitely visit the goat cheese farms and get goat cheese, bread, preserves and local beer. 

That sounds like a lovely day, and a great part of a trip to France. If you went all the way to France and spent all of your time climbing and didn't go visit the goat farm or swim in the river or whatever, that would be unfortunate. Rest days aren't wasted days to be minimized - they are an important part of the trip and sometimes produce the best memories. Especially when visiting another country.

Anyway, taking more rest days gives you more opportunities to enjoy the area, and makes your climbing days higher quality. This is important if you're interested in trying hard and sending things, rather than just flailing on moderate mileage because you are tired. Somewhere like Ceuse (known for it's hard routes) I'd rather be rested and ready to really try hard each climbing day.

True. Rest days in Gap, after shopping for supplies, were also quite nice. Found some really nice lunch spots. We really enjoyed Le Refuge, which is just down the street from Carefour Hypermarchet (shopping for absolutely everything), was next to a large park that always had something going on (think crafts and music), and was a reasonable walk to the historical town center. 

I'll just throw in a couple of general comments.

Marseille is quite a tough city,so if you do go there, stay alert. In general, theft from vehicles historically has been a major problem in southern France. I'm not sure of what the current situation is, but to be on the safe side, while traveling from place to place with a loaded car, never leave your vehicle unattended. Take turns shopping or using the restroom, with someone ( awake) always at the car. This includes the rest areas (Aires) on the Autoroutes and even short stops--it is amazing how fast the thieves do their thing. I realize that this is a 'downer', but being forewarned is better than losing all your gear before you even arrive at the crag---it has happened!!!!

I'd also suggest looking into Nice as an alternative arrival/departure airport. It is an easy in/out airport, pretty much equidistant to get to Ceuse ( and a bit closer to Verdon, I believe), and it is a pleasant city.

As far as your more climbing specific questions. I do agree that any more than 2 days on, especially at Ceuse, would be a mistake. Though Frank didn't find the hike to be an issue, but most consider it to be quite a slog--especially in the summer heat. You could find yourselves to be pretty debilitated by the time you actually reach the rock, even if the sector you have chosen will be in the shade. Also, being a downer again, while many do stash their 'heavy' gear up near the cliff overnight---this is also not without risk of theft.

I also wouldn't dismiss the Verdon as a summer destination. In addition to the famous, though often committing, big routes, there are also a number of worthwhile sectors of shorter routes around the gorge, as well as doing shorter routes on the upper sections of the big cliffs. And there will almost always be accessible areas in the shade.

You really can't go wrong at either location.

Alan Rubin wrote:

Don’t worry about being a downer, I appreciate any and all information. You and everyone else have been so helpful. I’ll certainly take this all to heart

Groceries from markets or supermarkets are not wildly different in price compared with the USA (the small shop in Sigoyer is significantly more expensive). It’s not a major budgetary consideration compared to accomodation and car rental unless you have gourmet tastes.

I would avoid staying in Gap if you can: it’s quite a drive to do daily. France has not been completely embraced by the tentacles of AirBnB and it is also worth looking on Gites de France.   gites-de-france.com/en 

I can highly recommend the Ecogite La Mercierat http://gite-lamercierat.com/ You can see the crag from your bedroom window.

Impossible to give advice on ratio of days on and off: depends on your fitness and how much you pack into your days. 

Concur with the above...plus...

You could fly into Lyon and drive from there.  Grenoble is a fun hang on a rest day (VF there is a good diversion).  Gobs of climbing, easy to hard, nearby.  Presles comes to mind.

Highly recommend the cheese shop Laiterie du Mont Aiguille (and you could run up Mont Aiguille too nearby...or some nice hiking trails).  Fully addicted to Le Trois Pis.

Le Trois Pis!

Sisterone is a neat place to visit for a day too.  Also some fun climbing across the river from town.

Orpierre, also loaded with climbing.

Tallard is a small town but a bit closer than Gap.  Recall we had a nice lunch there.

Aix is a fun town.  Market days would be good timing especially for picking up some local products.  Also fun are the wine caves nearby (maybe not a draw if you're from SLC...ha ha) to Sainte Victoire which also has good climbing.

Also concur as stated above to be careful with leaving your car unattended with anything in it especially near Marseille.  Had a friend take a nap at a rest stop on the autoroute nearby, and, a motorcycle smash-and-grab stole her wallet while she was in the car...so fast, nothing she could do.  Summer purported to be especially bad.

Fun!

Alan Rubin wrote:

while traveling from place to place with a loaded car, never leave your vehicle unattended.

Let me add an extra note to that:

Keep an eye on your vehicle even if you are sleeping outdoors next to it. Friends of mine had all their climbing gear stolen in a rest area located on the major freeway somewhere between Montpellier & Nimes. It happened in the wee hours while sleeping. They were told by the local Police that specialised gangs patrol the freeways of southern France searching for potential victims. They are not necessarily French thieves: Italian, Romanian, Albanian, etc. 

This was back in the mid-90s.

They were advised to stay at payed accomodation with secure parking to prevent from being robbed again. 

I csm see the problem still persists even today nearly 30 years later! 

Brian has a good suggestion with flying into Lyon. That’s what we did, and it had the cheapest flights. The airport was also super easy to get in and out of. Same driving distance as Marseille, also.
I really would not worry about gear theft at the crag, and stashing your gear on the right side of Biographie is standard. It makes the hike a pleasant stroll vs a slog. 

The crag is completely safe. The problem is getting into the crag as described in my last post. 

giraud b wrote:

The crag is completely safe. The problem is getting into the crag as described in my last post. 

When I was there, admittedly a long time ( >15 years) ago, there were reports that several parties who had stashed their ropes and climbing gear below the crag overnight, had arrived back there in the morning to find it no longer there. Perhaps these stories were apocryphal or such things no longer happen, but back then they were sufficient to cause us concern ( but then, since we were climbers of modest abilities we were only doing occasional day trips to there while based in Orpierre--so bringing our gear up and down each visit anyway).

Mnt File wrote:

I live here, I leave everything at the cliff all the time, shit gets stolen every year. Somehow it is still worth it? Early and late high season is the worst, in May, and again in august. It’s the French. They are a culture of thieves.  I’ve never seen a summer pass without a good amount of theft. It’s part of the experience. Btw the local épicerie is closed for good. There’s no news of anyone taking it over this year, so no groceries in the village. 

Are you talking about the snack bar with the little grocery in Sigoyer?  Bummer if so…

Mnt File wrote:

It’s the French. They are a culture of thieves.  I’ve never seen a summer pass without a good amount of theft. It’s part of the experience.

Just, wow.

Mnt File wrote:

Yes the Croq and Roll. It’s such a bummer. There was a rumor of someone taking it over but there’s been no movement since October. 

Poop

Alan Rubin wrote:

When I was there, admittedly a long time ( >15 years) ago, there were reports that several parties who had stashed their ropes and climbing gear below the crag overnight

In my case it was 1995 long before it became famous with the first FULL ascent of Biographie by Sharma. Still the highway thefts were motivated amongst many other reasons mainly because of a good number of Spanish climbers/alpinists travelling to Chamonix with their cars and vans packed up with gear. It's basically theft magnet.

I can imagine how bad things must be today or even 15 years ago as you mentioned. 

Mnt File wrote:

IIt’s the French. They are a culture of thieves.   

You have never been to Italy or Spain obviously. Much worse than France except for the southern part highway thing. But those looters aren't necessarily French as I mentioned earlier on.

Unrelated to climbing but they are part of the same ring of thieves coming from south east Europe, I can guarantee you that:

https://www.reuters.com/sports/cycling/stolen-bikes-stop-teams-finishing-races-slovenia-belgium-2023-06-18/

Slovenia. 

I remember hearing about thefts from cars in southern France being common, especially from those parked for Les Calanques, even as early as the '60s. At that time the blame was focused on gangs out of Marseille--often made up of folks with a North African background. It is likely that similar groups were operating elsewhere in Europe at that time, but back then, Les Calanques were pretty much the only 'sun rock' destination being visited ( and then only briefly to escape the rain in the Alps) by climbers from Northern Europe and North America. Over the years, as climbers started frequenting other areas, incidents of organized theft from vehicles spread as well, especially in southern Europe. We are not immune to such incidents here in the US, but they have historically usually been more isolated, perpetrated by certain individuals or small groups. I am concerned that in the current social environment here ( as exemplified by reports of mass thefts from retail stores) , such incidents may become more common and organized.

On a 'lighter note', when I first heard of Ceuse, probably sometime in the '80s, it was referred to as the 'Crag for the 2000s' because the potential climbs looked so futuristic. Not a bad guess, though folks started 'digging in' there, a bit sooner.