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Acquiring Gear
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Hi everyone! I am a new outdoor climber, looking for gear recommendations to start my journey lead climbing. I am hesitant to try trad and will probably stick to sport for a while. Length and thickness of rope? Not sure how many quick draws I should have? PAS? Belay device? I have only used gri gris at my time in the gym. Is this okay for outdoors? Any help is appreciated! Thanks! |
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Where do you think you will climb? I started with 12 cheap draws (which i still used), a 9.8mm 70m, 2 lockers, and a couple 60 cm slings. That was fine to get started with and is fine most times I go sport climbing. If you go somewhere that needs more draws, your partner will likely be able to spot you the 3-4 you’ll need. Gri gri is great for outdoors. PAS only becomes really handy once you start doing multipitch. Oh and definitely get a rope tarp/bag. Very handy for keeping your gear clean. |
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Thanks so much for the reply! Oh sorry! I'll be climbing in the southern California area. Potentially in Red Rocks, NV and maybe eventually in AZ. I am not sure what a "locker" is? A locking biner? |
Madeline L wrote: Yup, it means a locking carabiner |
John Clark wrote: Yep, generally agree with this. Draws - lots of good ones out there, just go with what you can get a deal on or what feels best in a store/experience. You want 10-12 as many routes have more than 6. Rope - you are going to trash your first one quickly regardless as you gain experience, but in my limited experience Edelrid and Sterling make great ropes. 9.5-10 is probably the size you want. Belay device I'll say as "preference." Gri gri's are great (just don't have you or your partner use it as a crutch and go hands off it), I use an ATC, lots of other good devices out there (smart, jul series etc.) A bunch of slings, a few lockers and a cordelette of 7mm cord are also really useful as that should let you setup topropes. |
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I assume you have partners that lead climb? And that you would ask them before you asked strangers on the Internet? Have you asked your partners what gear you should get? What did they tell you? |
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If cost is an issue, a rope and six draws will get you up (and down) a lot of sport climbs. You'll also have to have a harness, shoes, chalkbag and belay device. For the latter, a tube-style device (eg ATC) with a locker is just fine and may be more or less necessary for getting down. Add more as you figure out where you climb and what's required--more draws, longer slings, etc. First additions might be a couple more lockers, a couple longer slings and a couple free biners to facilitate top roping as well as leading. The biggest downside to starting with the minimum is that it seems invariably that the routes that suit your level/interests require more gear! But hopefully your partner has those two extra draws needed. I'd second getting a 70 m rope (not too skinny) as it's a lot more versatile than a 60 for sport. |
Madeline L wrote: I'm going to second Frank's comment and say that what you really need is not more gear, but an experienced partner who is willing to mentor you. Lead climbing, even leading sport routes, outside, is a completely different sport than lead climbing in a gym. There are dozens of things you will need to learn before you can even approach being safe. Any partner who is experienced enough to trust will have doubles or triples in the gear you would need to lead. Use your money to take a gym to outside class, where you can learn about what is different about outdoor leading, types of anchors you may encounter, anchor safety, descending, etc. They will advise you in what your immediate gear needs are. |
phylp phylp wrote: Mentors are hard to find. Youtube videos are totally sufficient to learn your basic skills. These old crusty people don’t really get that. They also don’t read enough of your post to see you are looking for sport gear not trad gear. There aren’t dozens of things to learn. Clip quickdraw to bolt, proceed like you are at the gym, opposite and opposed quickdraws on your anchor, learn how to clean an anchor safely, have belay lower you like you are at the gym. Check route lengths and always tie a stopper knot in the other end of your rope. Never go off belay unless you are on the ground. |
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Thanks so much everyone. I did do some outdoor top roping on sport with some impromptu partners outside of my area a couple weeks ago, but they aren't local to me. They were lugging all the gear and I felt horrible that all I had was my own harness and shoes. They gave me some recommendations on what gear to look into and all of your posts are echoing what they've said. I actually did sign up for an intro outdoor climbing class in my area so I'm not going to just go off on my own. After that I will do the intermediate course. I would love to find a mentor who is willing to teach me and was planning on trying to find a partner once I had some gear and some practice with the classes and in my local gym. Do you think you could recommend some videos? I will take all the help I can get, both from video and in-person instruction. |
Madeline L wrote: Try to find experienced outdoor climbers at your gym. Impromptu climbers you meet at the crag may not be very safe? Classes with a decent guide service is the best idea yet. Videos aren’t the same without some experience what to expect. |
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A few things that people haven’t mentioned yet: for your first PAS, just a double width sling (120cm) is fine until you know what you really need. You don’t need to spend money on a fancy one until you know what you want/need. Just make sure you’ve got a plan for it. Getting a sufficient pack is a good idea. Wouldn’t recommend any specific brand, whatever you like that fits well. But 40 liter is a good place to start in size, a sleeve for a water bladder, and make sure you can lash a rope to the top of it. The one thing I would say don’t cheap out on: QuickDraws. You’re gonna have them for a long time, so pick ones that don’t suck. Once you get draws without that annoying little notch on the nose, you can never go back. I like Petzl Djinns, but that’s preference. They got those ones with the steel insert carabiner too, can be nice to have a couple on hand. Finally, if you show up to the crag with your belay tag on your harness and not your belay device, you’re gonna look like a jabroni. This has happened enough it’s a red flag I look for. |
Daniel wrote: How about multiple lead certification tags and a GriGri? I’m definitely guilty… At least I brought a 70m rope to the crags instead of my 40. |
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video oracles: https://www.youtube.com/@videoracles and hard is easy: https://m.youtube.com/c/HardIsEasy are both great youtube channels to start with |
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Definitely find partners who climb outdoors already, they'll have the gear you need and you can get a feel for it all. You absolutely do not need gear yet if you're climbing with more experienced partners. And you want a partner who knows more. Offer to carry the gear for them. They bring the knowledge, you lug the weight. If you want the gear, that's a different story. Mountain project partner forums are good for finding partners. Watch a ton of videos. Some will be good, some will be great, some will be bad. Watch enough, you get an idea of it all. Browse the forums here. Read read read. There's one video I didn't include because 90% is good advice BUT it doesn't recommend testing the weight of a new system before going off the old, which is not perhaps the best practice. Watch enough videos, and you'll be able to get an idea of what is safe and prudent. How to make an anchor on two bolts with two quickdraws, two single length slings, a double length sling, and a corrdelete. https://youtu.be/hd86fxi6QI4?si=HGd00YD6Wg1oiI38 How to make an anchor on two bolts with quickdraws, a quad using a sling, and a single carabiner to a bolt https://youtu.be/Y-pLP9dRWPc?si=biHIDvD1uoOEQfvf How to clip the rope into quickdraws https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5euhMf-ag&list=PLxZZZ6cWRzlBE4eMk7cqECMIKND39_f5a&index=8 and more detail/close up shot on finger techniques to do it https://youtu.be/NwbXDakBYUw?si=tUYNdSBFph5vyj0d How to clean a two bolt anchor, lower- https://youtu.be/WzmbTHe_ql0?si=Q6cV1rjjRyRw9jM- How to clean a two bolt anchor, lower and rappel- https://youtu.be/Qr-HboxWb6c?si=Hg5qdT2HVFp1tFBL All about carabiners from Hard is Easy- youtube.com/watch?v=H3ojYSq…;list=PLxZZZ6cWRzlBE4eMk7cqECMIKND39_f5a&index=21 70m rope, 9.8 diameter. It's a long rope and you have fewer limits. You can climb taller, and more, routes without worrying "can I reach the top?". Do make sure you know how tall the route is though. Plan well. 9.8 because it's got more strands and such in it than a smaller one, and will last longer as it gets beat up against rocks. I climbed out of LA a bit. Malibu Creek State park is nice. Wherever you go, the number of quick draws depends on the route, Some routes have 14 bolts and need 14 quick draws, some have 5 bolts and need 5 quick draws. This doesnt include what you'll need to make an anchor above all the bolts, which could be two additional quick draws, or something else. This route https://www.mountainproject.com/route/106023792/chopping-block says it has 8 bolts. This route mountainproject.com/route/1… just says "bolts" without a number. This route https://www.mountainproject.com/route/119041940/friendzoned says 5 bolts. Look at where you expect to climb and what routes you think you can do (get to the top) and buy what you need. If you can't get up a route, you have to bail. Which often means leaving gear behind like a carabiner so you can get down safely. How to bail off a sport route (the first 1:30 is what you'll want, it's simpler than the next part of the video) https://youtu.be/AkZKaSX6N1M?si=LRxBNopNMo-PCPR5 |
John Clark wrote: Mentors are hard to find. Youtube videos are totally sufficient to learn your basic skills. I agree that youtube videos are a fantastic resource. These old crusty people don’t really get that. Well, I understand that the fact that I was climbing a lot of the 5.11s in the ORG on your ticklist when you were still in diapers is truly the definition of old, but I can assure you that ample use of potions, lotions and HRT have kept any crust from forming. They also don’t read enough of your post to see you are looking for sport gear not trad gear. Of course that was understood. There aren't dozen's of things to learn. Well, you listed 8 steps. I’ve added the things below off the top of my head, some of which, like rapping, have numerous sub-steps. If I gave it more thought, I’m sure I could add more. So yay! We are technically at “dozens”. -Make sure you understand the competence of your partners. The Sand Rock fatality was the result of a gym climber blindly trusting the advice and experience of the group she went out with. -Learn how to use a guidebook and read a topo. Not all guidebooks use photo overlays. MP descriptions are often not adequate to keep you from getting on the wrong route. Topos will use symbols for things like corners and roofs that will help you orient yourself to the rock. -no one I know wears a helmet in the gym. There have been fatalities at sport areas due to rock fall. 1Clip quickdraw to bolt, Gym routes are typically set so the crux is above the 2nd or third bolt. Understand that some sport routes outside have low cruxes and are meant to be stick clipped, or do not fall clipping first two bolts. Ground fall could result As to ground falls, gyms have padded, even floors. Plenty of sport climbing leaders get sprained/broken ankles falling low because of landing zones. Understand which direction gate should face relative to direction of travel Understand when it’s advisable to use a biner equipped with a sliderlock or other locking biner in certain locations. Understand when to use an alpine draw instead of a dogbone to avoid gates sitting on rock features, where biner can fail in a lead fall. 2proceed like you are at the gym, -except that gyms have bolts every 3-4 feet. I’ve heard gym climbers new to outside complain that 8 feet between bolts feels runout to them. Understand the fall distances you will be taking based on variable bolt spacing outside. -make sure your belayer understands not too be far out from the base, and not to have a big loop of rope, for the first 3 clips. Due to rope stretch and sloppy belayers, this is a zone for ground falls -gym routes typically don’t have features you can hit in a lead fall. For example, if there are big corners, a gym route will not be set so that you can swing into it if taking a lead fall. This is not always the case outside. You need to know how to read the fall line and understand the risks. -gyms never have slabs leading to overhangs. In some of these outdoor scenarios, even the best belayer may not be able to keep you from impacting the slab and breaking an ankle if you fall in an inopportune spot. Yes I’m talking about sport routes not bolted trad routes. -getting bolt to bolt: approach straight, go to right, go to left? In the gym there will be a line of colored holds telling you the path. Outside the line will often be chalked but there are sometimes false chalk paths made by people who went the wrong way. Reading rock features is an acquired skill. -there is no “bad rock” in a gym. Don’t take it for granted that the hold you go to pull on is going to stay attached to the wall when you use it. Not uncommon in fill-in routes in sport areas where the choss is all that’s left to be developed. 3. opposite and opposed quickdraws on your anchor, -Some people use other systems. I prefer alpine draws with locking biners with steel inserts. Gives more flexibility with equalizing if bolts are not at same level. 4learn how to clean an anchor safely, 5have belay lower you like you are at the gym -but inspect the fixed gear. Fixed mussy and draws with deep grooves are not safe to lower from. -There are still plenty of sport anchors with bolts and chains out there. Not everything has fixed biners or mussys. It’s bad form to lower through chains. You will need learn how to safely make the transition from leading to anchored to setting up rope through chains, to tossing rope, to rapping safely. About 10 distinct steps in this process. Never something to be learned from a video. Most experienced partners will give you a firemans belay first few times you rap. -communication in these transitions is critical. Fatalities have resulted from people being taken off belay when lead climber thought they were going to be lowered.
6.Check route lengths 7.and always tie a stopper knot in the other end of your rope. 8.Never go off belay unless you are on the ground. Neither of us wants to see another new climber get killed or injured. You are a strong and experienced climber. I think where we differ is that you are so experienced that you forget how much you are observing and reacting to, and doing with no conscious thought while leading at this point, and you have good trusted partners. While I have mentored enough beginners to still see all the things they don't understand about what they are doing, and dangers they are oblivious to. |
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Right on, Phylp. Youtube is a great resource. But it's not good enough to stand alone to teach climbing basics. How can you ask a video a question? You can't do hands-on practice with a video and get feedback. New climbers need experienced climbers to learn. Supplement it with reading and videos, but your chances of not getting hurt are better learning from a skilled, experienced climber. Hire a guide, if you can afford it. (Cue the "I learned on my own" responses) Signed, Crusty |
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You can ask youtube a question by typing your question into the search bar. Gonna bet you find your answer and about 3 different explanations. You old people are not very self reliant are you. “Find a mentor, hire a guide” geez, pick yourselves up by your bootstraps and stop whining about how others won’t spoon feed you answers. Mostly tongue in cheek though. Your recs are still great, but when I had no money and was starting out, a few used books and youtube got me on my way just fine. Lots of rando partners from the parking lot too. If they had a grigri, I’d gun, no questions asked. |
John Clark wrote: Let's imagine other activities, where there are dangerous consequences from doing things wrong. Would you want your doctor or pilot learning from videos alone? Ha ha. |
John Clark wrote: “You old people”? Hahaha, many whom can’t do any more post. |
Orion Belt wrote: Orion, just wanted to give you a huge shout-out. This is what it means to be a community. I wrote something similarly long-winded and comprehensive on Reddit and got a really heartfelt shout-out from another community member and it meant a lot for me, so here's me passing it on! Gold star for you. OP, all of this is great info. The one thing I want to be sure to highlight so it doesn't get missed in Orion's awesome post is the importance of testing new systems before removing the old system. For instance, you get to the top of a route you intend to rappel. Clip your tether (can be PAS, sling, or even a quick draw) to the anchor. Before you ask to be taken off belay, weight that tether AND ask for slack. Confirm that the tether is what is holding your body weight, not the rope. Then ask to be taken off belay. Likewise, when going from being tethered to the anchor to being on rappel, get your rappel set up, then cinch yourself up nice and tight to the anchor so that your tether is loose and only your rappel is holding your weight, BUT your tether is there as a backup should your rappel be rigged incorrectly. Only then, remove your tether and start your rappel. These are the most common situations where this is applicable, but the process holds across the climbing spectrum. Be sure in your new system before removing the old. Best of luck! |
