DMM Dragon Cams

Any one know how DMM Dragon Cams are?  How do they compare to BD?

Thanks

The search function on MP sucks, but if you google your question and add mountain project to the search, you will find many discussions on cam pros, cons, and preferences.

I have only used dragon cams a couple times. They are made well, but I like thumb loops on medium and larger cams.

Edit: I do think the dragonflys are pretty good. 

Action is great (better than BD) but the stem is short and there's no thumb loop which makes them less easy to place or clean.  Great build quality though. The extendable sling is cool, but not really super effective as it's pretty short even when extended. 

The extendable sling doesn't fully negate the need for alpine draws, but I'd say it helps maybe 25% of the time. IMO anytime you would use an un-extended alpine draw to prevent walking/just get a little bit of extension, you can just use the extendable string. Anecdotally my dragons walk less often, I think because the dyneema sling is less rigid than the nylon sling on the c4s.

Usually half my double rack is dragons and the other half is c4s (and totems for 0.5 and under). Can't really go wrong with either.

Also the colors are the same which is really nice.

I like them to supplement bd cams. The short stem is nice in some horizontals where u can burry it up to the stem. Also a rack of them packs much more compact with the lack of thumb loops and short stems. Id agree, 25% of the time the extension is enough so I can bring a couple less alpine draws. Maybe 8 instead of 10 on a normal trad route.  

The extendable slings really work well for walking on slippy rock like quartzite. 

I have four racks of cams: 1 of Totems, 1 of BD C4s, 1 one of Metolius Power Cams, and 1 of DMM Dragons. 

The Dragons are probably one of the better cams for people who do back country/alpine trad. The built in slings are truly a game changer. The WC Friends also have built in extendy slings, but they aren't quite as good as they're shorter and stiffer. 

However, the DMMs are a complete no go for aid. The thumb loops or lack there of is a big deal to some for free climbing but I don't care about that personally, it's a pretty short adaptation period IMO. 

The Totems and the Dragons are my go to rack. The Metolius cams I like for back country climbs because you get two more cams in a rack for the same weight. So for long approaches I'll take the Metolius cams and the DMM rack if I think I won't need Totems, or the Metolius rack plus Totems if I think the Totems will provide significant benefit. 

For most of my trad (which does not have long approaches) I take the Dragons and the Totems. I only use the BD C4s for aid and to loan out to friends getting into trad. 

C4s are outdated technology IMO, and are surpassed by Totem, Metolius, DMM, and WC. I have no idea why they're popular. Except for the 4s and bigger, get C4s for those-- keeping the lobes closed is pretty freakin sweet on those larger sizes! 

If you want what is possibly the ultimate back country cam (perhaps tied with Metolius?) get the Dragons. If you have any inclination that you might get into big walls and aid get the WC Friends. 

Build quality, finish, quality control, grip on slippery rocks and extendable sling makes the dragon better than the c4.

Also they walk way less than the BD in the bigger size (blue and up (grey and purple) in vertical wide crack they stay in place (the stem stays downward where a c4 would move and get either horizontal or upward) I don't trust the bigger C4 but I do trust the dragon. 

I don't do aid and don't care about the thumb loop. 

My second rack is a complete set of totem but the dragons are the ones taking a beating

YMMV ✌️

Sean Hoffecker wrote:

Action is great (better than BD) but the stem is short and there's no thumb loop which makes them less easy to place or clean.  Great build quality though. The extendable sling is cool, but not really super effective as it's pretty short even when extended. 

I 100% agree with what this user wrote above.

But here's my 2cents for OP - cams tend to be very personal. I dont like placing dragons, but i know that because i bought one, placed/cleaned it for a few routes, didn't like it. Other ppl have chimed and and seem to really enjoy them. Overall for me - thumb loop is a must. My compromise cam then is the friend (BD for 4+ as it folds the lobes in and keeps them compact)

one of thing i will say that wasnt mentioned about the dragons is as the mass hangs low from a easily flowing sling, then tend to dangle/move/bounce around a lot more on my harness. just one thing i noticed.

anyways - buy a used cam. play with it for a while. come up with your own conclusion. that being said, i just so happen to have a red/number 1 (which is really a "number 3" in dmm sizing) cam that i can sell you if you if youd like to test one out :) ha! theres an old post somewhere on MP for it. 

For the jungle on the plateau get the dragons! Some of that rock is scary. The best DMM piece is the green dragonfly though. The dragons are so well made. Your friends will complain about the lack of thumb loop, so this makes them the best TRS cam there is.

I'll buck the trend and say the dragons and to a lesser extent the dragonfly's are a bit crap. 

The stem is short which makes them very prone to getting stuck, relatively heavy considering no thumb loop, no thumb loop so aid is a non starter, no thumb loop so harder to place, extendable sling is more difficult to use though slightly more functional than the WC friend, this is offset by the very stiff stem and low and loose centre of mass which makes them swing and walk alot. 

 Weight wise they are comparable with the new gen of friend and camelot. 

The dragonflys are wider than competitors and have a terrible action in the micro sizes. I've seen them get stuck and rip out more than any other micro on the market, that last point is purely circumstantial but as they have seen very wide adoption here in the UK it's worth something. It's also worth noting the dragonflys design requires higher tolerances than other micros making them more likely to get stuck(i have bootied a cam that had a manufacturing flaw that highlighted this).

All for a higher price than the competition. 

Story time

I took an inexperienced friend out, he had a frankenrack big yellow dragon, I offered him a wc he declined, after 4m of climbing and 4 minutes of fiddling he dropped the dmm cam and I threw him a wc friend and he plugged it no issues. User error, sure, but why go for a fiddly option when there is zero benefit. 

WC friends are the best allrounders, totems offer the best performance. 

The lack of thumb loop on them makes them a no go for most people I've spoken to, me included. 

I've never really understood the no thumb loop complaints for free climbing. I have cams with thumb loops and dmm dragons and I don't don't think I've ever noticed the difference. Are people hanging cams off of their thumbs while placing?

Personally, I love my dragons, the action feels really good and I find that the extendable sling comes in handy. I don't find them fiddly and I haven't had issues with them getting stuck. That said the differences are pretty minor and it is really personal preference. If you are curious, try a friend's dragon or buy one and sell it if you don't like it. 

thumb loop is an extremely convenient (its rigid) place to bite/teeth when moving from harness to placement...etc

if theres no thumb loop, what do you bite down on? lol

I put the racking carabiner in my mouth