Holding / touching / spotting a ladder of a setter

I was listening to Stephanie Myr on the nugget  where she suggests that this would be chauvinist behavior (but has never happened to her). 

i once held a ladder for a dude when i was setting who had it at a severely acute angle (with my foot in front of it so it could not slip) and he got really mad at me. 

i’ve never discussed the subject but always just thought falling while holding tools onto a ladder would suck. 

is the universal opinion just never to touch a ladder because everyone knows what they’re doing and it’s at their own risk? 

if the angle is severe a fall from a slide ladder is certainly possible.

granted this has only come up once in a pretty long climbing career at this point, but i am curious, thx. 

That's what I'd want for my safety assurance, the notion of any random dillweed putting his hands on the bottom of my ladder, while I'm on it.

The line starts over there, please.

I don't know about routesetting, but holding a ladder for someone is a common safety practice, regardless of gender.

Edit: The person on the ladder needs to agree to you doing it and need to know you are doing it.

Most setters and climbing gyms have little regard for OSHA or safe work practices. I have seen some very sketchy ladder modifications in gyms. Only ego prevents someone working on a ladder from utilizing a spotter. 

Unless you are employed by the gym then you shouldn't be touching any equipment that isn't explicitly for customer use. Similar to how you wouldn't invade a construction site and touch any of there things. 

Lane Mathis wrote:

Unless you are employed by the gym then you shouldn't be touching any equipment that isn't explicitly for customer use. Similar to how you wouldn't invade a construction site and touch any of there things. 

in my case i was working on the setting team and this was a superior setter, but i was not a rando.

touching it meant a light hand and my foot at the base so it couldn’t slip, but i stopped and never brought it up  

i used to work in large events and someone died from a preventable workplace accident similar to this which informs the way i climb and use workplace equipment but true - don’t touch unless asked or if there is some trust there. 

Newt Riverman wrote:

Most setters and climbing gyms have little regard for OSHA or safe work practices. I have seen some very sketchy ladder modifications in gyms. Only ego prevents someone working on a ladder from utilizing a spotter. 

this was my take from the event. 

i guess the next question is if anyone keeps track of setter injuries and if this is actually an issue. 

It won't be long, yes, till you're alone
When your lover, oh, he hasn't come home
'Cause he's Holding / touching / spotting a ladder of a setter

Na na na na na na
Na na na na na
Na na na na na na
Na na na na na

I use ladders for work, and will often ask my coworkers if they will hold/like me to hold the ladder. They're sketchy tools, and I've fallen from them multiple times. Seems pretty analogous to sex, consent is pretty key. As a boss (™), I will tell people when they're doing something dangerous, but if they're aware of the risk and I am also comfortable, I'm not gonna tell them to stop. If some random person asked to hold a ladder for me, I'd kindly tell them to get the hell outta my work zone. Ymmv

petzl logic wrote:

I was listening to Stephanie Myr on the nugget  where she suggests that this would be chauvinist behavior (but has never happened to her). 

Chauvinist behaviour? Really?

I effin hate ladders. Feel free to hold it for me, I promise not to call you a chauvinist. 

There's a big difference between just doing something, unasked, and politely offering to do something helpful by asking. And yes, sometimes it's chauvinistic, especially if I say "no thanks" and you feel compelled to say "are you sure?". Maybe even more than once. At that point, I get snippy, but try to be nice anyway. These days, that's probably an age thing, equally with being female. Being a dinky old lady who does stuff dinky old ladies usually don't do sets off some weird "instincts" in dudes sometimes, lol!

Setters in a gym, are up in the air, with a bunch of stuff. Having dropped a dinky little socket wrench from the top of a not very tall gym wall, and seen how far that thing shot horizontally once it hit the floor, and the dent it made in the front counter at the far side of the gym? Uh, nope. Unless you are an employee, and authorized to be doing shit with the setters? Stay away. Far, far, away.

H.

Agree with the above that you should ask, preferably before they leave the ground, and if they have a problem with that, then it's an ego thing. Could be their insurance doesn't allow a non employee to touch it.

Ladders ARE dangerous.  https://blogs.cdc.gov/niosh-science-blog/2017/03/13/ladder-safety-month/It's basically doing a high ball and for many people with no experience. I used a ladder for years, then had to take ladder safety course for a job I had. At first I was like "I don't need this class" but I learned a lot. Now I see people all the time doing things wrong. The rungs of the ladder should be flat on top and they should be parrelel to the ground, an easy way to see if you got the angle right. I see people, especially at gyms, mess this up. If you have a tall extension ladder there's ways to carry and move it that don't wreck your back. I know someone who has had multiple back surgeries because they moved a big ladder incorrectly. If you screw up there's a TON of leverage that can wrench your back. If you move it correctly you don't introduce that kind of torque on your body.

I work on ladders frequently, very common in my world for someone else on the crew to brace or spot a ladder in this manner. Never seen anyone bat an eye about it.

Just another example of why setters should be provided the OSHA 10hr Construction Safety and Health training by their employers.

He overreacted.  The correct response to a coworker bracing your ladder is "Thanks" especially with how unstable the surfaces(pads or padded flooring) under them often are in a gym.  A random passerby is a little different and should ask before entering the work area.

petzl logic wrote:

is the universal opinion just never to touch a ladder because everyone knows what they’re doing and it’s at their own risk? 

 

Not universal, but personal preference. Id say it's presumptuous to touch a worker's ladder or even offer, unless they ask for it. Properly footing a ladder is a lot more than 'propping your foot next to it'. Ladder work is a craft. If this situation was more about a novice on a ladder in the work place that's something different. 

I work at heights solo as a window cleaner and am on a ladder every day. I don't want anyone to touch my ladder or be under me. It's distracting. If the ladder move is sketchy enough to need a foot, then I won't go up it, or there is only a few folks I would want to foot it. My 2+ cents. And here's some ladder pics that have nothing to do with the gym or route setting.

Ok, here's a question. If you saw someone soloing at the the crag, would you throw a rope down to them, or offer it to them if they didn't ask for one?

Darren Mabe wrote:

Ok, here's a question. If you saw someone soloing at the the crag, would you throw a rope down to them, or offer it to them if they didn't ask for one?

Depends if they post MP. 

Darren Mabe wrote:

Ok, here's a question. If you saw someone soloing at the the crag, would you throw a rope down to them, or offer it to them if they didn't ask for one?

for me it was a (touchy) coworker, not a rando. in my previous career working on ladders we all did this for each other and no one batted an eye. there is a big difference between throwing a rope down on a soloer and spotting a ladder. it would be more like closing a carabiner on someone’s top rope - nothing was likely going to happen but you made them 1% safer  

i should get the time stamp for the podcast though since that is why i brought it up. 

petzl logic wrote:

for me it was a (touchy) coworker, not a rando. in my previous career working on ladders we all did this for each other and no one batted an eye. there is a big difference between throwing a rope down on a soloer and spotting a ladder. it would be more like closing a carabiner on someone’s top rope - nothing was likely going to happen but you made them 1% safer  

i should get the time stamp for the podcast though since that is why i brought it up. 

That's better analogy 

petzl logic wrote:

I was listening to Stephanie Myr on the nugget  where she suggests that this would be chauvinist behavior (but has never happened to her). 

i once held a ladder for a dude when i was setting who had it at a severely acute angle (with my foot in front of it so it could not slip) and he got really mad at me. 

i’ve never discussed the subject but always just thought falling while holding tools onto a ladder would suck. 

is the universal opinion just never to touch a ladder because everyone knows what they’re doing and it’s at their own risk? 

if the angle is severe a fall from a slide ladder is certainly possible.

granted this has only come up once in a pretty long climbing career at this point, but i am curious, thx. 

Unfortunately ladder holding triggers the homophobes.