The best granite climbing area in North America (Hint: it's in Canada)

So having climbed a decent amount in both Squamish and Yosemite over the last few years, I have slowly come to the conclusion that for the average climber, Squamish is objectively the best granite climbing area in North America. Let me elaborate:

1. Location/Travel: Winner Squamish

For those just visiting, Squamish is easily accessible through multiple international airports and has actual travel infrastructure to get there. Yosemite is somewhat in the middle of nowhere and there is no truly close airport to fly into. Travel to Yosemite is also affected when the pass closes making it very annoying to get to if you live to the east of the park and driving.

2. Location/Living There: Winner Squamish

This feeds into how nice it is to have it as a weekend trip-able destination. The closest metro areas to squamish have an abundance of jobs and it is pretty reasonable to drive up to to Squamish (or other area crags) if you live in Vancouver or Seattle. The largest area with a significant amount of work to Yosemite is the Bay Area, which (from experience) is quite a slog from Yosemite (especially the east side). Vancouver/Seattle also have a lot more local options as a climber than the Bay Area does.

3. Camping: Winner Squamish

Camping is significantly easier in Squamish, getting reservations in Yosemite is a huge pain and one can get hit with large fines if they camp illegally in the park. If one wants to camp outside the park they have to drive significant distances to either loud roadside camping or primitive pullouts.

4. Food: Winner Squamish

While Yosemite has the pizza deck and the village store (which is surprisingly affordable) there really isn't much in terms of options in terms of getting food or stocking up when in the park. Squamish has multiple grocery stores, fast food (with wifi) and restaurants within walking distance to the chief. I have spent a bunch of time there without a car fairly easily.

5. Getting around: Winner Squamish

Squamish proper is fairly walkable, pretty easy to get food, go to the community center, hit up some boulders, go cragging  all without a car or even a bike. The valley during peak season is a zoo to get around. Always a giant traffic jam and realistically quite a long walk to get around the valley. Add it on to the fact that you need a car to be able to drive out of the park to camp it kind of sucks.

6. Rest day activities: Winner Squamish
Squamish and surrounding area has better indoor things to do (access to library or cell phone to work), and a ton of outdoor activities as well (mountain biking, kite boarding, skiing, trail running). Yosemite has some okay hikes but lacks reception or those other things.

Now to some more contentious comparisons:

7. Variety of climbing: Winner Squamish

Squamish in my opinion has a wider variety of climbing than the valley. Better access to actual good sport climbing, world class bouldering, awesome cragging as well as longer routes of varying grades. There are heinous heady test pieces, overhung pitches, fun slab romps, you can kind of pick whatever you want to do. I find Yosemite doesn't have some styles or at least not in a decent quantity, and particularly the sport climbing really lacks. Squamish is also a lot more dense of a climbing area, you can find hundreds of routes within a short hike versus the more spread out valley.

8. Multipitch Free climbing: Winner Squamish

I think for the AVERAGE climber (<5.12 multipitch), you are much better served by climbing on the chief and other formations than climbing in the valley. The approaches are all super short and not contrived, there are less mungy pitches (in my opinion), there is an awesome spread of grades and especially the moderates I have climbed are just plain more fun. You can even climb 12+ pitches and 30 minutes latter be cooking dinner. Some of the coolest pitches I have ever seen/done are in the valley but I have also seen my partner dig out cracks with their nut tool more than I can count. I think if you are a mutant that can free the captain maybe you are better served by the valley but I am a weak motherfucker and think squamish is just higher quality in the grades I climb. The stone itself in squamish is also just less pinned out, less polished and more grippy.

9. Aid climbing: Winner Yosemite

I think if you get your rocks off by pulling on widgets and vertical camping, Yosemite is by far the best place in N.A. if not the world. Same goes if you are a freak that can free climb on the captain.

10. History: Winner Yosemite

For sure Yosemite has some cool history and one should definitely visit it at some point. It is cool to think of what happened here in the last 65 years. My hot take is that I think this clouds peoples judgement when assessing the quality of climbing in the valley.

Total Score: Squamish (8) vs Yosemite (2)

I think both locations are cool but if I had to choose one between the two, I think Squamish is objectively a better choice for us mortals. Curious to see what others would break it down as over these 10 categories.

Actually Squamish sucks, don't go.

ryan climbs wrote:

1.2 3, 5 and 6 are my metric 

That’s crazy cause mine is just the food and aid climbing tbh

now THIS is a cope

You forgot weather, aka number of climbable days per season, which is pretty important whether you're planning a trip or considering a place to live. 

Also to consider: backcountry climbing.  I have no idea how many big backcountry formations you can hike to and have all to yourself in Squamish, but that's important to some people too.

How would you rank those two? 

I agree with this perspective when it comes to Squamish:
https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/124008849/recommendations-for-a-summer-climbing-destination-that-is-not-squamish?page=4#ForumMessage-124049925

Big Abraham wrote:

now THIS is a cope

Just trying to cope that I live so far from Squampton :(

Limpingcrab DJ wrote:

You forgot weather, aka number of climbable days per season, which is pretty important whether you're planning a trip or considering a place to live. 

Also to consider: backcountry climbing.  I have no idea how many big backcountry formations you can hike to and have all to yourself in Squamish, but that's important to some people too.

How would you rank those two? 

Lots of out there climbing in BC and Washington. Yosemite is hardly "out there" and I wouldn't consider the high sierra part of Yosemite.

Rain is your biggest problem in the PNW but there is a decent ammount of climbing that can happen in the rain still. The valley is not too hot and not too cold about the same ammount of time that squamish is climbable imo.

Connor Dobson wrote:

Rain is your biggest problem in the PNW but there is a decent amount of climbing that can happen in the rain still. The valley is not too hot and not too cold about the same amount of time that squamish is climbable imo.

It is also worth differentiating the weather/season for the visiting road trip climber, versus the local.

For the visiting road trip climber, the issue of rain in Squamish is somewhat overblown, since these climbers mostly go in July/August, when the weather is very reliably dry. For an area to be a good destination, it doesn't matter whether an area is good year round, it just matters that the area have a solid reliable window in which to visit. Squamish has that. If anything, the Squamish season is advantageous since it is good in mid-summer, when most convenient non-alpine climbing areas in North America are too hot. 

By contrast, Yosemite Valley is good in spring and fall, which means it competes for season with most of the other North American destinations. Also, spring and fall in Yosemite Valley aren't that reliable anyway - you can still get stormed on in these periods. Arguably, Squamish summer is more reliable for the visiting climber than Yosemite in fall.

Some caveats though, that work against Squamish:

- The comparison above is considering these as destinations to visit. It's a very different situation for the locals. The PNW is magical to visit in the summer, but for the year round locals the long dark rainy PNW is brutal. So even if Squamish is arguably the better place to visit, for year round living I'd much rather live in California. Especially since...

- The weather/season comparison really only holds up in favor of Squamish if limiting the comparison to Squamish vs Yosemite Valley. But really we should consider Yosemite Valley plus Tuolumne, which really expands the length of the good season. Squamish can't compete with that.

- The typical Squamish summer weather (sunny, 70s) is generally good for multipitch crack climbing, but is still a bit on the warm side for certain forms of climbing, most notably hard bouldering. The problem with Squamish and the west side PNW generally is that it is generally either warm or wet, with few/unreliable windows of cold and dry. For those wanting crisp bouldering temperatures, Yosemite (in the appropriate season) is an easier place to find that. Again, especially if Tuolumne-inclusive.

---

In summary, the Squamish season is pretty great actually for the visiting trad climber who has the flexibility to choose when to go. But for the year round local or regional climber who is stuck there through the rainy winter, it is a lot less awesome. Finding a window to visit for good bouldering conditions is also less than ideal.

Another category to consider:

11. Regional Climbing Resources: Winner Yosemite

While Squamish may be arguably favorable in a strict comparison to just Yosemite Valley, once you expand the radius to include the broader area it shifts the balance. For quantity, quality, and variety of rock climbing, plus year round season, the broader Sierra Nevada region in a 4-ish hour radius around Yosemite (including portions of the High Sierra, Mammoth, Bishop, Sonora region, south Tahoe, etc...) is a solid winner as compared the the 4 hour radius around Squamish. In my opinion, at least.

Connor Dobson wrote:

2. Location/Living There: Winner Squamish

This feeds into how nice it is to have it as a weekend trip-able destination. The closest metro areas to squamish have an abundance of jobs and it is pretty reasonable to drive up to to Squamish (or other area crags) if you live in Vancouver or Seattle. The largest area with a significant amount of work to Yosemite is the Bay Area, which (from experience) is quite a slog from Yosemite (especially the east side). Vancouver/Seattle also have a lot more local options as a climber than the Bay Area does.

Kinda disagree with this one, at least from a US citizen perspective. Vancouver is close to Squamish but is ruinously expensive to live there. Living in Squamish proper would be amazing, but work and cost is challenging. Plus, as an American living on the Canadian side involves fairly challenging legal residency issues.

If stuck living on the US side of the border, you aren't that close to Squamish. The Seattle to Squamish commute is pretty grim these days. The combination of Seattle/Everett traffic, the border, and Vancouver traffic make it a hassle unless you drive in the middle of the night. Bellingham is nice and is closer to Squamish, but not that close, is lacking for good local climbing, and the job situation is tricky. Plus in all these places you are living in the rain for the winter.

For the California side of the comparison: Yes, living in the Bay sucks. Don't do it. But there are other places to live. The Central Valley + Foothills exists, and isn't the wasteland that people seem to think. Sacramento is a great home base actually. I've lived in Seattle and Sacramento, and find the Sac to Yosemite drive to be vastly easier than Seattle to Squamish. Plus Tahoe >> Index (I stand by that...fight me).

Summary: If you have or can get Canadian residency and afford to live in Squamish/Vancouver, by all means do that. But if living on the US side of the border, NorCal (not the Bay) has some serious advantages over western WA.

Connor Dobson wrote:

So having climbed a decent amount in both Squamish and Yosemite over the last few years, I have slowly come to the conclusion that for the average climber, Squamish is objectively the best granite climbing area in North America. Let me elaborate:

1. Location/Travel: Winner Squamish

For those just visiting, Squamish is easily accessible through multiple international airports and has actual travel infrastructure to get there. Yosemite is somewhat in the middle of nowhere and there is no truly close airport to fly into. Travel to Yosemite is also affected when the pass closes making it very annoying to get to if you live to the east of the park and driving.

2. Location/Living There: Winner Squamish

This feeds into how nice it is to have it as a weekend trip-able destination. The closest metro areas to squamish have an abundance of jobs and it is pretty reasonable to drive up to to Squamish (or other area crags) if you live in Vancouver or Seattle. The largest area with a significant amount of work to Yosemite is the Bay Area, which (from experience) is quite a slog from Yosemite (especially the east side). Vancouver/Seattle also have a lot more local options as a climber than the Bay Area does.

3. Camping: Winner Squamish

Camping is significantly easier in Squamish, getting reservations in Yosemite is a huge pain and one can get hit with large fines if they camp illegally in the park. If one wants to camp outside the park they have to drive significant distances to either loud roadside camping or primitive pullouts.

4. Food: Winner Squamish

While Yosemite has the pizza deck and the village store (which is surprisingly affordable) there really isn't much in terms of options in terms of getting food or stocking up when in the park. Squamish has multiple grocery stores, fast food (with wifi) and restaurants within walking distance to the chief. I have spent a bunch of time there without a car fairly easily.

5. Getting around: Winner Squamish

Squamish proper is fairly walkable, pretty easy to get food, go to the community center, hit up some boulders, go cragging  all without a car or even a bike. The valley during peak season is a zoo to get around. Always a giant traffic jam and realistically quite a long walk to get around the valley. Add it on to the fact that you need a car to be able to drive out of the park to camp it kind of sucks.

6. Rest day activities: Winner Squamish
Squamish and surrounding area has better indoor things to do (access to library or cell phone to work), and a ton of outdoor activities as well (mountain biking, kite boarding, skiing, trail running). Yosemite has some okay hikes but lacks reception or those other things.

Now to some more contentious comparisons:

7. Variety of climbing: Winner Squamish

Squamish in my opinion has a wider variety of climbing than the valley. Better access to actual good sport climbing, world class bouldering, awesome cragging as well as longer routes of varying grades. There are heinous heady test pieces, overhung pitches, fun slab romps, you can kind of pick whatever you want to do. I find Yosemite doesn't have some styles or at least not in a decent quantity, and particularly the sport climbing really lacks. Squamish is also a lot more dense of a climbing area, you can find hundreds of routes within a short hike versus the more spread out valley.

8. Multipitch Free climbing: Winner Squamish

I think for the AVERAGE climber (<5.12 multipitch), you are much better served by climbing on the chief and other formations than climbing in the valley. The approaches are all super short and not contrived, there are less mungy pitches (in my opinion), there is an awesome spread of grades and especially the moderates I have climbed are just plain more fun. You can even climb 12+ pitches and 30 minutes latter be cooking dinner. Some of the coolest pitches I have ever seen/done are in the valley but I have also seen my partner dig out cracks with their nut tool more than I can count. I think if you are a mutant that can free the captain maybe you are better served by the valley but I am a weak motherfucker and think squamish is just higher quality in the grades I climb. The stone itself in squamish is also just less pinned out, less polished and more grippy.

9. Aid climbing: Winner Yosemite

I think if you get your rocks off by pulling on widgets and vertical camping, Yosemite is by far the best place in N.A. if not the world. Same goes if you are a freak that can free climb on the captain.

10. History: Winner Yosemite

For sure Yosemite has some cool history and one should definitely visit it at some point. It is cool to think of what happened here in the last 65 years. My hot take is that I think this clouds peoples judgement when assessing the quality of climbing in the valley.

Total Score: Squamish (8) vs Yosemite (2)

I think both locations are cool but if I had to choose one between the two, I think Squamish is objectively a better choice for us mortals. Curious to see what others would break it down as over these 10 categories.

Actually Squamish sucks, don't go.

Sounds like another Gripped Magazine ad, I mean “article.”

The highway that runs underneath The Chief generates intrusive traffic noise and spoils the aesthetic experience of climbing there. The traffic noise in Squamish bears no comparison to Yosemite traffic (if only they would ban all vehicles in Yosemite). The Chief is also set in an industrial setting (logging) and impressive nevertheless. 

3. Camping: Winner Squamish

Camping is significantly easier in Squamish, getting reservations in Yosemite is a huge pain and one can get hit with large fines if they camp illegally in the park. If one wants to camp outside the park they have to drive significant distances to either loud roadside camping or primitive pullouts.

5. Getting around: Winner Squamish

Squamish proper is fairly walkable, pretty easy to get food, go to the community center, hit up some boulders, go cragging  all without a car or even a bike. The valley during peak season is a zoo to get around. Always a giant traffic jam and realistically quite a long walk to get around the valley. Add it on to the fact that you need a car to be able to drive out of the park to camp it kind of sucks.

Actually Squamish sucks, don't go.

1. Camping may be easier right now *comparatively* but it's definitely getting to be super hard. I showed up to the chief campground on a weekday this summer and it was absolutely slammed. Got super lucky to get a spot. It also seemed like ppl were being pretty ruthless this summer about trying to 'reserve' others' spots before the previous occupants had left. All the other campgrounds in the area are reserve-only.

2. It may be easier to get around in Squamish, but the routes themselves (at least these days) are an absolute zoo. Even during the week days. 

3. You're not allowed to spray about a place that's already super crowded and then say it sucks. Stop it. The secret is already out. See point 2

I love both Yosemite and Squamish. Both are very different and have their pros and cons.

My main problem with Squamish as a sweaty person is that it's never dry enough for me to climb hard. When it's not raining it's still too warm and humid. On any sustained routes my hands were soaking wet and no amount of chalk would dry them out.

Bouldering wasn't as bad as route climbing because of the shorter duration on the rock. I was able to send V7 in Squamish compared to V9 on Sierra granite. But for trad/sport that was sustained, 11a felt like my limit compared to 13a on Sierra granite.

With that said, I had probably the best 6 weeks of my life in Squamish this summer!

ryan climbs wrote:

Don’t forget the echoing sounds of the dumpsters in Yosemite every morning and the squadrons of retirees on Harley’s 

And the generators from all the RVs 

Ben B wrote:

3. You're not allowed to spray about a place that's already super crowded and then say it sucks. Stop it. The secret is already out. See point 2

Would you have preferred I add an /s tag so that the obvious tongue in cheek comment is a little more obvious for you?  

Connor Dobson wrote:

Would you have preferred I add an /s tag so that the obvious tongue in cheek comment is a little more obvious for you?  

I know you were being sarcastic but the whole "don't go to <insert any cool place here>, it sucks" thing is so played out

Ben B wrote:

2. It may be easier to get around in Squamish, but the routes themselves (at least these days) are an absolute zoo. Even during the week days. 

I mean if you're trying to climb calculus or rock on during peak season yeah there will probably be people on it every day. But you can count the number of ascents slab alley saw any given week on one hand. It's also way less of a zoo during the shoulder seasons when there aren't as many travellers willing to book a vacation and hope for no rain. I'm an early starter but I don't think I waited to get on a single climb in Squamish this season except the inevitable mid day funnel on Boomstick for getting off broadway.

The Chief at weekends is saturated by climbers from Vancouver. Finding a camping spot is problematic. The Chief Rangers appear to be friendly and amenable to climbers. By all accounts a group of Spanish climbers in the fall of 2022 were held at gunpoint in the Camp 4 parking lot and handcuffed. I believe their mistake was to drive through a red stop sign.

Do we have another option for the best granite besides two roadside hyper accessable areas with obnoxious crowds.  What about the winds?  Bugs?  Bow Valley?  Cochise?  I bet the best granite area is somewhere in Mexico that no one ever climbs at because its not hyped on instagram 

1, 2, 4, 5, 6 are just attributes of being close to a town, so you could just say any climbing area near a town is better than any that is isolated, and it'll always win or at least tie in the "comparison."