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Another PAS option: Beal Expresso

Original Post
Bruno Schull · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 0

Hey Folks, 

Just to experiment, I bought bought a Beal Expresso. 

https://www.beal-planet.com/en/longes-sport/1929-expresso-3700288282699.html

It's actually quite nice--I like the integrated loop for a belay device, and the cord itself is really dynamic...I can stretch it with my hands.  It's also light, soft and flexible in the hand, and arguably racks more easily than other options.  Finally, the sewn loop to hold the locking carabiner at the end is nice and snug...it doesn't have that spooky feeling with some open loop options where you think the PAS might just come unclipped from the locking biner...

Of course, it's not adjustable but...could you mate it with a Petzl Evolve Adjust?

Anyway, it's another option in a broad field.

Thomas Worsham · · Youngstown, OH · Joined Oct 2017 · Points: 85

I m curious to know what kind of forces it generates in an anchor fall situation. I could see this style of lanyard being more user friendly than a standard PAS or equivalent. I am still using a 120cm sling knotted in the middle as my PAS/ rap extension and something a little more robust might be nice in the future.

Bruno Schull · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 0

Hey Thomas,

I don't know what kind of sling you're using (nylon, dyneema) but you're probably aware than knotted dyneema is both static and relatively week, although perhaps completly strong enough for a rapel extension. I use dyneema slings this way frequently, but I do think it's a good idea to be aware or slipping/falling, extension, shock loading the anchor, and so on.  

I don't know how much a difference a dynamic PAS makes in terms of force on an anchor--it must play some role, and I'm sure people here will have answers and data.

What I can say, as above, is that the Beal rope on the Expresso is notably dynamic--even in the short length of the tether you can feel it stretch with a hard and steady pull.  

Thomas Worsham · · Youngstown, OH · Joined Oct 2017 · Points: 85

I use a nylon sling as my PAS (the blue BD one) or the 120cm length 7mm cord that i usually have on my harness because of the failure risks with knotted dyneema. It really just depends on which one I grab first if I am not using the rope and a clove hitch.

I haven't found of info on actual fall forces with a dynamic PAS but I am sure someone has a link to a Hn2 video.

Andy Wiesner · · New Paltz, NY · Joined Sep 2016 · Points: 35

When does one need a dynamic rappel extension? 

gtluke · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2012 · Points: 1

when you move from anchor to rappelling with one PAS. 

Bruno Schull · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 0
Andy Wiesner wrote:

When does one need a dynamic rappel extension? 

Fair question Andy.  For what it's worth, depending on the climb, my partner, the season, and my my mood, I might be using a rope to tie into the anchor, a dedicated PAS of some kind, or a sling. 

I have been standing with a partner at a crappy old piton and mank anchor in tbe French Alps, both of us tethered in with knotted slings, when he slipped and fell and shock loaded the anchor--I guess THAT is when you woud want a dynamic PAS/rappel extension. 

Anyway, lots of options exist.  

Brad Johnson · · Charlotte, NC · Joined Jul 2017 · Points: 0

I actually think this is a pretty cool idea. 

Jake Tarren · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2022 · Points: 0

Has anyone tried using the rope clamp from an evolv adjust on this? I'd love one device that's dynamic for protection while rigging from a ledge, has a loop for a rapell extension, and is adjustable.   Cloving a carabiner into my evolve adjust works fine but is a bit bulky on the harness...

Bruno Schull · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 0
Kevin DeWeese wrote:

"Perhaps" strong enough? Lol

Yes, you got me Kevin, you're right.  Like many climbers, I was in the past influenced by the (in)famous DMM video, whereas now if I understand correctly we know that a knotted dyneema sling is more than strong enough to be used as a rapell tether, and if you aproached the breaking point of that sling, you'd be more worried about breaking bones, rupturing organs, and so on.  Is that correct?

I do have a question. Take the example above, standing at  an alpine anchor of dubious integrity, two climbers attached with knotted double length slings, some slack on the system, which is a big no-no but shit happens, one climber falls and shock loads anchor.  I don't think the sling would break (as you imply a knottted sling will be strong enough) but what about the forces on ther anchor?

To phrase the question differently, is the small amount of stretch in a PAS with dynamic properties like the Beal Espresso meaningful in terms of reducing peak forces on anchors, or will this be irrelevant over such a short length of cord?  

Thnx

Daniel · · Chicago, IL · Joined May 2015 · Points: 17

In general, the amount of stretch would be relatively insignificant at such short lengths, unless your tether material is VERY stretchy. Not nothing, but just not massive. On that note, I’m not sure what “shock loading” refers to - just loading the anchor? Applying force? People use this term but it just sounds like “applying a load to an anchor.” If you want the tl;dr skip to the end because this is gonna be long.

Anyways. If you’re curious if your leash will snap in this situation, hang it from something and drop on it. It’s…almost guaranteed fine. How much force exactly is very tricky to calculate - so we’ll just take a cue from Petzl and say a REALLY gnarly fall, the climber can generate 4 kN. That is an amount of force that would be nearly impossible at the lengths of your leash. Petzl got that force by someone on a hanging belay, stopped almost immediately, with very little rope out, with the climber falling below the belayer quite far. In this scenario you described, I want to be clear again - this is an almost impossible amount of force to generate falling on your leash. Unless you were, I guess above your anchor on the leash, and you fell below it? I guess if your anchor was below a ledge, and you had climbed above the ledge, and you had an unusually long leash, you could maybe generate a few kN, but still. We’ll say 4 kN anyways.

Knotted dyneema can break between 3-15 kN based on testing from Edelrid, with the 3 kN being an unusual knot and not what would be used in a leash. So we’ll say 6kN which would be more akin to what you might use, with dyneema having very little stretch. So with knotted dyneema, in a worst case scenario, your leash will still not break.

So now onto the anchor. It’s just down to how it was set up. Let’s say you were using a single DMM wall nut #1, which has a 7 kN rating. So if you and your partner were both in your strange “above the ledge” position, both of you had an unusually long leash, and both of you were on this single #1 wall nut, yes you would break your anchor, if you managed to generate 4kN each, at the exact same time. Which you probably didn’t. But still.

But let’s get back to a much more normal scenario, and you have at least 2 pieces in, so at minimum above 10kN. If you both fell, you’re more likely going to generate say, 1-2.5 kN if you fell the entire length of your leash. So maybe 5 kN total? You’re still well within safety margins, even on a single, small nut. I use 6mm cord for a Purcell prusik, which is on the low end of leash strength, breaking around 10kN. If two people were on it, and we fell the full length of the leash, we might be able to get to around 6-7 kN of force, still well below the breaking strength. Except it would still probably be less than 6 kN, and I’m a big guy.

Tl;dr: if you’re on a very small, single nut that you should not be using in the first place as an anchor, and you have an oddly long leash, and you both fall at the same time, and you fall double the length of your oddly long leash because for some reason you were both on a ledge above your leash, you maybe (big maybe) able to generate enough force to break your anchor, but your leash will be fine. So you’re fine. Get a leash you like. I like my Purcell prusik, even though it may break at “only” 10kN and it’s pretty static.

Jake Tarren · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2022 · Points: 0

I picked one up and tried it for a few weeks before returning it, I just couldn't get it to release under any load.  Is there a break in period, or did you switch the rope?

I switched to an evolve adjust and am happy with it for the most part.

Wictor Dahlström · · Stockholm · Joined Oct 2021 · Points: 0

I do not see the point of this product...

Thomas Worsham · · Youngstown, OH · Joined Oct 2017 · Points: 85
Wictor Dahlström wrote:

I do not see the point of this product...

The point is to make money, but why does that have to stop us from discussing things we are interested in?

Tjaard Breeuwer · · Duluth, MN · Joined Jun 2015 · Points: 16

Why do they have this and the Dynaconexion? Seems like the eact same thing?

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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