Removing Wedge Bolts larger then 1/2"

I've run into a problem recently with a larger wedge bolt that I don't think I have the ability to pull.

This top bolt in the anchor is (I think) around 9/16" or possibly larger. I am fairly certain this is larger then the max diameter of the Doodad tool, and I am contemplating ways to work with bolts like this in the future. I am wondering if anyone has worked with these before, and if you have any advice for me with tools that I can either build or source without machining equipment?

Is this a case for something like a Hurley Jr or Sr? Should I look for a larger casing tube for the Doodad's Ball screw, and find a way to enchain adapters? 

Up for any suggestions the community may have!

You may want to consider core drilling using a 17mm core bit.  This link covers the topic here:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/123882067/core-drilling-tools-for-bolt-replacement

Brian Murphey wrote:

You may want to consider core drilling using a 17mm core bit.  This link covers the topic here:

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/123882067/core-drilling-tools-for-bolt-replacement

It’s an interesting idea for sure! I’ve been so hesitant to core drill that it never crossed my mind.

It feels more destructive then I’d like, but if I’m patching anyways it won’t matter much. Thanks for the suggestion!!!

If you're not planning on re-using the hole you could always just chop it as close to flush as you can, use a punch to push the remaining bolt into the hole, and then just patch it.

Tyler Stockdale wrote:

It’s an interesting idea for sure! I’ve been so hesitant to core drill that it never crossed my mind.

It feels more destructive then I’d like, but if I’m patching anyways it won’t matter much. Thanks for the suggestion!!!

Not destructive if you are re-using the hole with a glue-in.

Tyler Stockdale wrote:

I've run into a problem recently with a larger wedge bolt that I don't think I have the ability to pull. ...
...This top bolt in the anchor is (I think) around 9/16" or possibly larger. I am fairly certain this is larger then the max diameter of the Doodad tool, ...

Instead of guessing, perhaps measure the diameter or the bolt. Wedge anchors are not manufactured in a 9/16" diameter. The construction industry uses 3/8", 1/2" and 5/8", skipping the 1/16" increments between those sizes. As related to rock climbing, a 5/8" wedge anchor is massive. The only 5/8" commercially manufactured hanger that I am aware of is made by CMI and has a 10,000 lb. minimum breaking strength. 

Matt Z wrote:

If you're not planning on re-using the hole you could always just chop it as close to flush as you can, use a punch to push the remaining bolt into the hole, and then just patch it.

A definite option! I often like to pull on principle to keep the cliff as clean as possible, but this will be my method if I cannot figure out a better way for sure.

Brian Murphey wrote:

Not destructive if you are re-using the hole with a glue-in.

These are sadly getting abandoned. A mixture of the anchor being attached to a hollow sounding block, this formation having had a massive rockfall event 1-2 seasons ago from right below this anchor, and the anchor not actually being at a proper stance. I have already moved it to a better location, but am just workshopping the removal and patching now.

ClimbBaja wrote:

Instead of guessing, perhaps measure the diameter or the bolt. Wedge anchors are not manufactured in a 9/16" diameter. The construction industry uses 3/8", 1/2" and 5/8", skipping the 1/16" increments between those sizes. As related to rock climbing, a 5/8" wedge anchor is massive. The only 5/8" commercially manufactured hanger that I am aware of is made by CMI and has a 10,000 lb. minimum breaking strength.

AH, this is super interesting, thank you for that info! Yes, as you have guessed, I have not actually measured the bolt size. In the photo the bottom "Modern" equipment are regular 3/8-16 wedges, the bottom homemade hanger is 1/2"-13, and I have just been assuming the size of the top bolt until I am able to get out to measure it. The nut on the bolt was bigger than any of the sockets I owned, and I have just been guesstimating until I can get back out there with my new shiny large socket set.

This is definitely a massive wedge, and probably the largest bolt I have seen on a climb before. I am SURE it is "super good enough", but part of the reason for removal is that I want to dissuade people from attaching themselves to the massive hollow block it is protruding from. The climb this anchor is on is one of the most popular beginner multipitch climbs in the state, and I want the hardware on this climb to match the general skill / knowledge level of the people climbing it.

Then the recommendation to cut, hammer in, and patch is probably the easiest bet.

Tyler Stockdale wrote:

 The nut on the bolt was bigger than any of the sockets I owned, and I have just been guesstimating until I can get back out there with my new shiny large socket set. This is definitely a massive wedge, and probably the largest bolt I have seen on a climb before. 

A 5/8" wedge anchor typically requires a 15/16" wrench or socket for the nut. Coincidentally, last week I installed some 5/8" Hilti and ITW RedHead wedge anchors, bolting a wall to the concrete foundation. The same 15/16" size for Powers and Confast.

ClimbBaja wrote:

A 5/8" wedge anchor typically requires a 15/16" wrench or socket for the nut. Coincidentally, last week I installed some 5/8" Hilti and ITW RedHead wedge anchors, bolting a wall to the concrete foundation. The same 15/16" size for Powers and Confast.

Thanks for this info! Going to head back up there soon with my 5/16” socket in tow.

After chatting with my mentor a bit, we’ve come up with an interesting technique to drill out the center, tap, and then spin with an adapter.

Chop and patch will be the back-up if it doesn’t work. Will keep y’all updated on how this process ends up working!

Tyler Stockdale wrote:

Thanks for this info! Going to head back up there soon with my 5/16” socket in tow.

After chatting with my mentor a bit, we’ve come up with an interesting technique to drill out the center, tap, and then spin with an adapter.

Chop and patch will be the back-up if it doesn’t work. Will keep y’all updated on how this process ends up working!

If the bolt has a standard coarse thread, you would invest less labor if you instead make a custom spinner using a big coupling nut and a threaded insert. If the bolt is 5/8-11, this insert would drop right into a 5/8-11 coupling nut and allow you to bridge the connection to the standard spinner with a short piece of 3/8-16:

EZ-Lok insert for $1.69

Gregger Man wrote:

If the bolt has a standard coarse thread, you would invest less labor if you instead make a custom spinner using a big coupling nut and a threaded insert. If the bolt is 5/8-11, this insert would drop right into a 5/8-11 coupling nut and allow you to bridge the connection to the standard spinner with a short piece of 3/8-16:

EZ-Lok insert for $1.69

This is true, and originally what I was hoping to do.

The issue is going to come with the ability to pull this bolt with the doodad tool. I am not sure I can fit the coupling nut that is large enough to spin this bolt into the aluminum hex chamber.

This Coupling Nut from McMaster is 7/8" and a bit bigger then the interior of the wonderful tool you designed.

I haven't been able to find a coupling nut for 5/8"-11 that is smaller then the 6/8" interior of the aluminum hex shaft, so the above technique is what we came up with.

Tyler Stockdale wrote:

This is true, and originally what I was hoping to do.

The issue is going to come with the ability to pull this bolt with the doodad tool. I am not sure I can fit the coupling nut that is large enough to spin this bolt into the aluminum hex chamber.

This Coupling Nut from McMaster is 7/8" and a bit bigger then the interior of the wonderful tool you designed.

I haven't been able to find a coupling nut for 5/8"-11 that is smaller then the 6/8" interior of the aluminum hex shaft, so the above technique is what we came up with.

In that case you will also need a spacer made from black pipe and a longer piece of 3/8-16 as a draw stud. Send the draw stud thru a beefy washer outside the black pipe spacer. It's a bunch of extra parts, but they are still cheap and will require less labor than drilling and tapping the center of a bolt while hanging on a rope. 

Gregger Man wrote:

In that case you will also need a spacer made from black pipe and a longer piece of 3/8-16 as a draw stud. Send the draw stud thru a beefy washer outside the black pipe spacer. It's a bunch of extra parts, but they are still cheap and will require less labor than drilling and tapping the center of a bolt while hanging on a rope. 

Pretty much the exact "next steps" I had been thinking about.

Thanks Greg. Will let you know if this is what I resort to. 

Unless the location is super remote, you might consider checking to see if the bolt is indeed a wedge stud before doing other things.

Loosen the nut a bit and see if you can tap it in the hole deeper. 

If it doesnt budge, you wont be able to spin it anyway. Could be a stud bolt, glued stud or something else?

In any case i would likely just redneck core drill and see if the dodad will pull it. 

timothy fisher wrote:

Unless the location is super remote, you might consider checking to see if the bolt is indeed a wedge stud before doing other things.

Loosen the nut a bit and see if you can tap it in the hole deeper. 

If it doesnt budge, you wont be able to spin it anyway. Could be a stud bolt, glued stud or something else?

In any case i would likely just redneck core drill and see if the dodad will pull it. 

It's the definite next step. 

Im putting money on wedge just because of the rest of the hardware, but i've been surprised before. Hard to tell sometimes.

Will keep everyone updated when I can! Supplies are taking too long for me to pull it this weekend so I'll have to wait for the end of the month.

The removal effort was successful! Thanks everyone for chiming in with suggestions, tips and info.

I ended up using the drill and tap method suggested to me by Mark Wagner. While the supplies were a bit more expensive, they were more readily available/ easier to research then my attempts to build a wider pulling tube / spinner attachment for the 5/8” wedge. I do plan on attempting to create another puller with the increased inner diameter for future pulls.

It was a good thing as well, as I had managed fix the nut back on the corroded threads the last time I was up here, and we had to hack saw it off before working.

The pull took about 1.5 hours with all the shenanigans involved. Once we got the threads installed in the 5/16” hole, it was smooth sailing! I do hope I don’t have to work on many more of these in the future however.

Thanks again y’all!

nice job!!!  it's great to see people putting in the time and effort to clean up instead of just adding more bolts... ;-)