Risk in paragliding vs climbing

I've been interested in taking up paragliding for a number of years but have held off trying it out mainly due to being focused on other activities as well as a sense that paragliding carries smaller margins and higher consequence than the climbing that I do. I've listened to cloudbase mayhem for a number of years and appreciated the perspectives on risk from top pilots in the sport, especially Jeff Shapiro.

A little more info on my background for reference. I've been climbing since mid-high school, so about 11 years now. Done a couple walls in Yosemite and really enjoy that but mostly doing long alpine ridge climbs in the Sierra these days as that's my main partner's preference (so lots of soloing moderate terrain with sometimes big exposure). My dream was always to climb in the Alaska range and the Canadian rockies (a la Jack Tackle, Barry Blanchard, Mark Twight, Steve House). I've managed to live in not ideal places for training for that and also let grad school and school in general get in the way of those dreams. I briefly got into whitewater kayaking but found that the culture felt a little risk averse overall and also wasn't feeling like I was worked by the end of a day. I really like endurance style activities and at least at the level I was paddling at, this wasn't meeting it. 

Anyways, all that combined with climbing feeling overrun with people these days, I'm interested in checking out paragliding. Points of appeal include still getting the cardio in to get up high for launches, exploring new terrain and getting different perspectives on it, and ultimately doing vol biv kind of missions. It seems like it would be amazing to move fast in the mountains like that and cover big ground. It also feels like there's more to still explore in the sport (or there's lower-hanging fruit than what's left in climbing for me). John Gill's quote "I don't think I would become a climber if I were a young man now, what is freedom to a bird in the middle of a flock?" comes to mind though maybe I'm misinterpreting it. Also, I currently live in Santa Barbara, and as I understand Eagle is a good outfit to learn from.

My main question is how people view the risk and consequence in paragliding vs in climbing. Maybe Dave Turner is the guy to ask about this as he has pursued both at high levels.  

I don’t paraglide and have had little interest.  Long alpine climbs appeal to me though likely not at the level you and your main partner.

I just wonder if paragliding is intrinsically more difficult and so comes with greater risk. It isn’t like we have an evolutionary history of progress as with climbing.  

Also, if you have not, a good read is The Beckoning Silence by Simpson.  Of the two, I’d say it is mostly about climbing and yet also more than touches on paragliding from a first-person perspective. 

I don’t think you’ll like paragliding based on your account of past activities. If you feel the white water crowd is risk averse you’re going to have an awful time with PG. Sites are regulated, there’s a hard license progression, and people who are “progression hunters” tend to get shut out, because they are often dangerous pilots. You’re subject to the FAA rules, property issues are even worse than climbing (check out the “don’t fly here” areas in SB and Torry Pines”).

Pioneering and vol biv are especially hazardous and aren’t really appropriate until maybe a couple thousand hours of flying at minimum.

All that said, my personal risk assessment is roughly the same for PG and alpine climbing. But I’m also new (P2), know I’m green, and am spending time “discovering” new circumstances in manageable conditions and known locations. Was really excited about hike and fly getting into the sport, I now see it as still a season or two off because of needing to build experience. 

I'll weigh in on this as a new P2, who also got into paragliding with aspirations of using it to eventually further climbing objectives and hike and fly.

Like many of the sports we do, the sport is as dangerous as you want to make it. Modern gear, particularly wings suited for newbies, has a lot of passive safety built in. That said, the amount of knowledge out there for flying is immense. I would argue that the Dunning-Kruger may have higher consequences in flight. Quality instruction is definitely key, as is surrounding yourself with mentors and having a solid idea of how you want to engage with the sport. You're on your own up there. 

I've seen some gnarly footage of people emergency landing on a slope, then forgetting to take off the chute, and then being dragged up the slope again by the chute. All while having a broken arm from the first crash landing. My friend had to crash into a tree (rather than crashing into a house) which sounds painful enough, but the chute also collapsed and he couldn't grab any of the branches so bam! right to the bottom. Only suffered a broken back. 

A lot of the accidents and accident reports of paragliding aren't made public, and are only talked about on private discord channels. It's a little more of an inclusive bunch, probably because they don't want people who don't know what they're talking about taking things out of context (which I myself may or may not be doing). 

I'm not saying it's inherently dangerous alone or compared to climbing, but talk to a paraclimber in private about it. Much more dangerous than skydiving, much less dangerous than B.A.S.E. jumping I would think (obviously). But if you want "safe", perhaps take up model railroading or stamp collecting.

What about paramotoring? Looks a bit “safer” and you can go under your own power. 

Climbing Weasel wrote:

What about paramotoring? Looks a bit “safer” and you can go under your own power. 

I mean, call me a purist but if I'm going to assume the risk of paragliding, I personally don't want to be strapped to a big metal cage with a rotor and a tank of gasoline. But that's just me. 

The two constants in this sport are that gravity exists, and the ground is hard. I don't really want extra assistance reaching the ground. 

Long Ranger wrote:

I've seen some gnarly footage of people emergency landing on a slope, then forgetting to take off the chute, and then being dragged up the slope again by the chute. All while having a broken arm from the first crash landing. My friend had to crash into a tree (rather than crashing into a house) which sounds painful enough, but the chute also collapsed and he couldn't grab any of the branches so bam! right to the bottom. Only suffered a broken back. 

A lot of the accidents and accident reports of paragliding aren't made public, and are only talked about on private discord channels. It's a little more of an inclusive bunch, probably because they don't want people who don't know what they're talking about taking things out of context (which I myself may or may not be doing). 

I'm not saying it's inherently dangerous alone or compared to climbing, but talk to a paraclimber in private about it. Much more dangerous than skydiving, much less dangerous than B.A.S.E. jumping I would think (obviously). But if you want "safe", perhaps take up model railroading or stamp collecting.

There are certainly types of paragliding that are more dangerous than skydiving, but I think to make a blanket statement that all paragliding is more dangerous than skydiving is a bit of an oversimplification. A lot of paragliders would argue that downhill mountain biking is more dangerous than paragliding. 

A lot of paragliders would argue that downhill mountain biking is more dangerous than paragliding. 

Well I mean, driving a car to go paragliding is more dangerous than paragliding/climbing/skydiving/dh mtb'ing I guess if you want more comparisons. 

Depends on what you call "climbing" but I think I can count five, maybe six, friends who have been seriously injured paragliding. IMO it's much more dangerous than run-of-the-mill roped climbing. Compared to soloing or full-on alpine climbing? Sure, probably roughly equal but given the nature of the activity, paragliding is definitely more dangerous than what most of us on MP do.

Hey Sean, not to give away the ending but I just sold my paraglider after about 5yrs in the sport. As to your question about risk I personally(!) consider it waaaay riskier and I like alpine climbing, mtn biking, surfing remote breaks, backcountry splitboarding  blah blah blah... Before I started PG I was imagining doing big hike and fly missions in the mtns but after flying what I consider to be safer places (coastal soaring like SB, flying in stable conditions, etc) I had no interest in increasing the risk. I also had time to observe the sport... lots of accidents, spinal injuries (even at safe spots), and seeing some very experienced pilots getting hurt. You're at the mercy of the wind in a very limited aircraft. The other negatives for me were the fickle conditions, always have a back up activity so you can walk away from a launch. I was also hoping for a culture like i experienced with climbing but didn't find it. There are many different types of paragliding pilots and the full range of risk profiles. If you go for it It's a personal decision of course I would just go into the sport slowly and with reasonable expectations. You're in a great place with access to the top teachers so in a great position to see if you like it. 

I appreciate the responses!

Bill, I haven't read The Beckoning Silence, and I'll definitely check it out, thanks.

Spopepro, I kind of had that impression regarding regulation in paragliding. I think maybe I overstated my perception of the WW crowd being risk-averse, but your point is well-taken and good for me to consider.

Overall it's illuminating to hear those that are/were paraglider pilots tended to scale back their ambitions due to perceived risk (that feels a little in contrast to climbing--at least for me--in that scaling back ambitions often is due to lack of dedication/technical ability and not necessarily risk though that's too much of a blanket statement). Eric, that's a useful point about conditions; that's actually a very good thing for me to think about more as I find highly-condition dependent sports with highly-variable conditions a bit frustrating.

Ryan, that's a good tip on talking to pilots at the launch. I wouldn't mind running shuttle for a free tandem haha!

I have a bit of experience under canopies—about 450 skydives, 18 BASE jumps, and my P2, but not a whole lot of hours in that.

This is my take on risk in climbing as well as wing-based sports—it’s exactly like driving. You can do everything right: drive the speed of traffic, use your turn signal, check your blind spot, drive sober, maintain your vehicle; when you do all of that, you’re likely to have a long & safe career. With parachute sports, you can maintain your gear, make informed and wise weather decisions, pull high, make non-aggressive and predictable turns and patterns; you’ll likely be safe. I think most of us know what being safe vs pushing it looks like in climbing.

But with driving, climbing and wings, you can do everything right and still be taken out in the blink of an eye.

None of this applies to BASE though. You’re guaranteed to lose friends if you do it for very long. Or your friends will lose you.

P3 pilot here with a well rounded climbing background. In my view, paragliding is more dangerous, but your decisions of what conditions to fly are often the markers of how dangerous it can be.

In climbing it’s often normal and sometimes even good to have the “go for it” mentality, especially when the consequence is objectively fairly safe. Like taking a big whip sport climbing for instance, trying harder, etc. With paragliding you have to throw that mentality out the window and build an entirely new framework of risk separate from climbing. You HAVE to take into account so many factors including what you know, what you know you DONT know, and the perspectives of more experienced pilots around you. In that way, it’s more of a mentorship sport, there is really no safe progression in paragliding as a solo pilot. Always seek higher advice and continue learning, and always err on conservative decisions.

I’ll echo what others have said, that finding good instruction is well worth the coin when starting out. And there is an amazing community of pilots and sky to explore of you start down the path! 

I have decades of BASE jumps from all over the World and totally think Paragliding is more sketchy than BASE, and more dangerous than climbing. The response from Christian on the Paragliding vs climbing question was excellent.

My "more dangerous than BASE" thought is because I'm counting just the canopy flying part after the jump and those hyper elliptical canopies make me nervous as hell. Some really solid responses on this topic, good luck brother.

Thanks for the thoughts Marc, Christian, and Hank! 

Some good food for thought for sure. That makes sense to not "go for it" when paragliding. When something does go wrong, it seems like the consequence for paragliding is going to be quite severe relative to a lot of outcomes in climbing.

I don't know enough about canopy shapes to fully internalize your point Hank, but will look into that down the road.

I haven't come to any deep conclusion from this but appreciate everyone chiming in and will keep thinking on it and maybe take a tandem!

Sean Anderson wrote:

Thanks for the thoughts Marc, Christian, and Hank! 

Some good food for thought for sure. That makes sense to not "go for it" when paragliding. When something does go wrong, it seems like the consequence for paragliding is going to be quite severe relative to a lot of outcomes in climbing.

I don't know enough about canopy shapes to fully internalize your point Hank, but will look into that down the road.

I haven't come to any deep conclusion from this but appreciate everyone chiming in and will keep thinking on it and maybe take a tandem!

One of the key differences I see in risk is the ability to bail in climbing. Of course there are a few exceptions like climbs in super remote areas of the planet, X-rated routes near your limit, and big-mountain climbing when weather roles in when bailing isn’t really an option. When you’re in the air, you absolutely have to land at a survivable speed. There’s a saying in aviation: it’s better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than in the air wishing you were on the ground.

In PG, there are four different wing ratings: A - D. People learn on an A, often buy a B as their first, and advanced pilots fly the Cs & Ds.

Wing ratings

You should absolutely do a tandem. Do a tandem skydive as well if you haven’t already. There’s no other feeling in the world. You could also do a tandem BASE in Moab. That’s a very new thing. The people doing them are some of the most experienced jumpers in the country, but the margin of error in BASE is all but non-existent in the opinion of this novice.

I agree with Marc. Once you launch, you’ve committed and there’s no pressing the pause button if overwhelming situations ensue. The amount of information, time and diligence that is required to be a safe pilot is significant. It is not like riding a bike through town. You can’t expect to just hop back on the horse and be fully competent. I’d steer clear of any instructor that’s going to get you through the courses in a short timeframe. It’s just too much information to learn in that amount of time and wholly retain. I’ve enjoyed learning over the course of months and having some brain cycles in between experiences. Get plugged in with the local community to facilitate mentorship after you earn your P2 and take your time. This is only my first season of flying and it has been fun but should not be trifled with. Multiple folks in my class have had minor injuries, or scary situations, myself included.