Petzl vs CAMP carabiners

Petzl carabiners are manufactured in Rotherens, France. They are made in the same Petzl factory that forges the crampons and ice axes. I have seen this with my own eyes. They are not manufactured in Taiwan.

Christian Knight wrote:

Petzl carabiners are manufactured in Rotherens, France. They are made in the same Petzl factory that forges the crampons and ice axes. I have seen this with my own eyes. They are not manufactured in Taiwan.

I know from someone who worked at dmm that they were involved in the production and manufacturing of the current petzl reverso. 

The rotherens facility has only 3 presses, DMM has 8, the foundries in Taiwan have even more. Many companies will diversify manufacturing for a single product across many facilities and countries, this can depend on the volume required and stage in production cycle as well as add a buffer for supply chain issues. 

that guy named seb wrote:

I know from someone who worked at dmm that they were involved in the production and manufacturing of the current petzl reverso. 

The rotherens facility has only 3 presses, DMM has 8, the foundries in Taiwan have even more. Many companies will diversify manufacturing for a single product across many facilities and countries, this can depend on the volume required and stage in production cycle as well as add a buffer for supply chain issues. 

Petzl carabiners are all made (full production, not just assembly) in France with the exception of the Freino (DMM/UK). I've also seen Petzl's production (from raw materials) with my own eyes in their Rotherens factory. Go to any climbing shop, flip the tag over and see for yourself:

Most other carabiners are made in Taiwan with the exception of DMM (UK). 

Zachary Winters wrote:

Petzl quality is generally better than CAMP when it comes to carabiners. CAMPs are light, but the very narrow cross section at the rope basket doesn't help with rope longevity or drag. And some gates just stop working after a while. I just wish Petzl would make a proper wiregate carabiner. (No, Ange doesn't count)

Petzl and DMM are top quality in my experience. CAMP is at the bottom. Everything else is somewhere in the middle.

Specifically with regards to the H-profile attache, petzl has made the manufacturing process more complex than the competition for better cold weather performance— the gate has a hole drilled through at the key to clear snow/ice jams, and the screwlock mechanism is both knurled and milled for easier handling with gloves (most screw locks are either knurled or milled, not both). 

Camp Dyon’s are the best carabiner ever designed imo but they have one flaw. The pin at the base could be more snug and better shaped. It’ll sometimes snag abraded dyneema and I’ve seen gates stay open if that pin isn’t cleaned and lubed once in a blue moon.

Having read that out loud it’s not a great advertisement.. but trust me get your hands on them. They’re incredible, especially for twin ropes and ice/mixed. They’re basically master points, weigh very little, and are keylock.

For masterpoint lockers I really like the camp atom. 

very true about that pin issue, though I think the gate slip is debatably worse - def easy to avoid but it must be considered and watched for when big side loads are placed on the gate. 

I just saw the new spirits (colored), damn they're nice, I'm going to grab a rackpack, they really do look great, especially at a much lower price point than Dyons.

Aiden Nova wrote:

Camp Dyon’s are the best carabiner ever designed imo but they have one flaw. The pin at the base could be more snug and better shaped. It’ll sometimes snag abraded dyneema and I’ve seen gates stay open if that pin isn’t cleaned and lubed once in a blue moon.

Having read that out loud it’s not a great advertisement.. but trust me get your hands on them. They’re incredible, especially for twin ropes and ice/mixed. They’re basically master points, weigh very little, and are keylock.

For masterpoint lockers I really like the camp atom. 

Never had that issue with Dyons. And I’m using them since 2019.

Why do you like Camp Atom? Do you like it specifically for cold weather usage?

I agree on the new Petzl Spirit. However Petzl declare 4g more than a Camp Dyon and….they look smaller. But I might be wrong. Never seen them and compared in real life. To me they even look smaller than the old generation Spirit.

Aiden Nova wrote:

Camp Dyon’s are the best carabiner ever designed imo but they have one flaw. The pin at the base could be more snug and better shaped. It’ll sometimes snag abraded dyneema…

seconded

Christian Hesch wrote:

very true about that pin issue, though I think the gate slip is debatably worse - def easy to avoid but it must be considered and watched for when big side loads are placed on the gate.

I think the gate is one of the best features, it’s really smooth to clip. HowNoto did a video on breaking gates and used Dyons, they seemed bomber to me. 

It is one of the smoothest (nearly as good as DMM Trad Alpha and WC Helium, which are the gold standard, IMO) but it can def slip to the side if pushed hard. To be fair, it will only slip if you're loading things against it in a way that you shouldn't be... the pin issue is also annoying, though I'm afraid of what the price point would be if manufacturing process was tighter to eliminate that. Only seems to be an issue with contact slings, I've never had it happen on any other sort of soft goods (and contact slings have the same issue with getting caught inside the lobes of totems, so it seems to be an issue that one needs to be aware of/proactive about regarding those specific slings).

Summorum Pontificum wrote:

Never had that issue with Dyons. And I’m using them since 2019.

Why do you like Camp Atom? Do you like it specifically for cold weather usage?

I use it in all weather, but it’s shape and keylock does lend well to gloves. It’s light, slim, but pretty large so it’s easy to find amongst the back of my kit. I just find myself going for it for most anchors I make, it’s a great GHMP. 

I'll keep this going...whatever direction it might lead.  

What do folks think about the sideways strength of various gate designs? Of course, the goal is to never load carabiners accross a gate, but it does happen. I had an incident this summer where an DMM Alpha Trad biner (my favorite ice and alpine all around biner) opened under a sideways load. Totally my fault, not complaining about the biner. But it did get me thinking that in these situations a solid gate key lock is probably stronger than any wire gate....thoughts?

Bruno Schull wrote:

I'll keep this going...whatever direction it might lead.  

What do folks think about the sideways strength of various gate designs? Of course, the goal is to never load carabiners accross a gate, but it does happen. I had an incident this summer where an DMM Alpha Trad biner (my favorite ice and alpine all around biner) opened under a sideways load. Totally my fault, not complaining about the biner. But it did get me thinking that in these situations a solid gate key lock is probably stronger than any wire gate....thoughts?

If you’re talking about gate loads that wouldn’t be considered under the normal crossloading spec, I suspect wiregates are more robust than keylocks— it doesn’t take much deformation for a keylock to fail, but a wiregate that deforms will stay engaged.

Zach Baer wrote:

Two words which I am unaccustomed to uttering:Mad Rock.

These things are cheap, about as light as the spirits, and the exact same carabiner. I started using them at work, and have admittedly stolen more than a few for my pleasure harness.

I also happen to really like the Mad Rock wire gate biners for my alpine draws. They are reasonably light, nice and snappy, and cheaper than most. Very happy with my choice.

Eli W wrote:

If you’re talking about gate loads that wouldn’t be considered under the normal crossloading spec, I suspect wiregates are more robust than keylocks— it doesn’t take much deformation for a keylock to fail, but a wiregate that deforms will stay engaged.

Hi Eli-yes, I'm thinking about gate loads.  I immagine that's not in the normal spec, as you say, but it does happen, so I wonder how different carabiners compare?

Pulling straight out against a gate, or pulling sideways on a gate, you think wire gate would be stronger?  I would guess a solid gate would be stronger.  But there are so many different wire gate and solid gate configurations, it's hard to say.  

What about, say, a CAMP photon straight gate vs a CAMP photon wire gate?   Or a DMM alpha sport vs a DMM alpha wire? 

Has anybody tested this?